gallery The Meaning of Agent Walker Persona

As I wash dishes at my job, I been reading the comments in my Sarah Walker vs Agent Walker series. I want to take the time to explain my theory on Agent Walker and why I separate the two.

The woman we grown to love and fear can be dangerous is one in the same. I am not foolhardy to think otherwise. I also know Sarah loves Chuck with all her heart, but like Chuck falls back to his insecurities. Sarah has a tendency to fall back to what is familiar to her. The only thing Sarah is passionate about other than Chuck was being an agent.

Think back to this moment Chuckaholics, Chuck318-00498 Chuck318-00499Casey pleads with Sarah on leaving the building in protecting those outside. Sarah’s claim was everything she cared about was under attack inside the building. Chuck and the CIA was under attack by Shaw and The Ring.

However, we saw Sarah do something in this scene that was a reversal of who she was. Sarah ran from danger, but not in this case. Sarah tells Chuck to stay and fight knowing the Ring and Shaw would as soon as kill Chuck than detain him. Sarah was not protecting Chuck in this retrospec. Sarah wanted to save the CIA and Chuck was the only one that could help her. It’s the result of Casey leaving. Sarah’s choices are limited.Chuck318-00501I stand by the notion that the CIA replaced Sarah’s real family. Thus, when she files for a prenup she doesn’t put Jenny Burton, but sticks with Sarah Lisa Walker. Sarah distanced herself from her family and we know why.

However, the concept of Agent Walker is bigger than that. Agent Walker is the same as Batman or Iron Man. Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark both are not the heroes without their masks. The two are separated by the mask they put on. new-batman-image-and-more-details-on-batcave-in-the-dark-knight-rises

imagesIt’s the same for Sarah Walker. Sarah has to put on a mask in order to protect the country and those she cares about. The very woman who can be a loving woman needs to be brutal when it comes time for it. Chuck317-00062It becomes even harder when emotions get involved. Thus, the need to focus on a mission become apparent. Sarah’s game seemed to weaken in the first half of S3, but did she ever really recover?

Agent Walker took a beating from Sydney and La Cuidad, but did well fighting a group of Terrorists in Tom Sawyer and Tic Tac.Chuck103-01071 Chuck304-00966The balance comes with being able to block out all the distractions around her. She needs to be like Bryce or Carina when battling evildoers to survive, but the deeper she falls for Chuck the less her skills became. It almost was like Chuck’s emotions got the best of him, which would suppress the Intersect. The same can be said for Walker.

Here are some scenes in which Sarah becomes a shell of herself. The first big one would be these two scenes.

The agent that stands before Bryce Larkin, who was being used as a shield between Sarah and the baddie, Walker was able to fire her weapon into the baddie. It’s significant because Sarah could of shot Bryce in the process. Chuck203-00033 Chuck203-00035However, when Chuck was in the same predicament. Sarah could not come to terms with the idea of missing and shooting Chuck in the process. It’s the difference between Sarah acting as Agent Walker from her being Sarah Walker. When a woman in love would not put the person she cares about in harms way. Shoot, she shot her father, but didn’t take a shot with Chuck’s life in danger.Chuck203-00990 Chuck203-00992It’s also the difference between her and Casey. Casey would’ve pulled the trigger on Chuck here. Would there be remorse from Casey’s perspective? of course, but he still would follow his orders despite knowing Chuck and Sarah were in love. Chuck201-01115Agent Walker needs to be present for important missions like going undercover in Volkoff Industries. She said, “I have to be my former self if I want to survive.” It also would be a highly emotional moment for Walker and Bartowski.  Sometimes I wonder if this was the same moment from a Stephen and Mary perspective. It is almost like the apple didn’t fall far from the tree. Chuck411-01168The distress in Sarah’s expression shows how much being Agent Walker was a problem at least four years later. The same expression Chuck never sees here, but the viewer gets to see.

Gary often disputes this scene, but we have to remember the morning briefing was a bit much for Walker. She was balancing herself with the idea of working with Chuck, but Chuck said no. She than was ordered to work with Bryce Larkin again. Things could not get anymore complicated for her.

Thus, when she was preparing to tell Chuck she was leaving. Chuck took it upon himself to ask Sarah to go on a vacation with him. There is nothing wrong with that from a Chuck perspective. He doesn’t know what Sarah knows. Chuck222-00215 Chuck222-00222However, you can’t ignore how choked up Sarah looks as she reveal her new assignment and who she would be working with. None of this was Sarah’s fault, but some believe Sarah should just walk away, but that’s not being realistic by any stretch. Chuckaholics know Sarah wasn’t  going to stop being an agent. Sarah had no intentions of hurting Chuck and she showed it.

The moment that shows the same emotion she gave Chuck when telling him she was leaving for Russia can be the same as telling him she would be working with Bryce in Washington the only exception would be Chuck didn’t see it. Chuck222-00231 Chuck222-00238Sarah was also prepared to tell Chuck she didn’t want to save the world anymore, but work would force her to put on her mask again. It’s the same situation Bruce Wayne went through in Dark Knight. Does Bruce save the woman he loves or save Harvey Dent in hopes to save Gotham City. Batman chose Gotham over the person he loved.Chuck222-00961Does Agent Walker go after the chip or save the man she loves from Fulcrum? She chose love much to the dismay of Bryce and the country.Chuck203-00595Grant it, Sarah’s assignment was to protect Chuck, but she did do her job by saving Chuck. it’s why she was adamant about Chuck going off on his own with no security blanket.

As I said, the point of Sarah Walker vs Agent Walker is to distinguish the hero from the person who wants to be free from her much like Batman began to hate the mask but saw no way to let the mask go.

It’s the same for Chuck. He didn’t need to download 2.0, but the risk of baddies having the Intersect was paramount only heroes must do.

In essence, Sarah and Chuck both were trapped in a world they couldn’t get out of. For their sakes, at least they had each other to get through it all until S5 when Chris Fedak had to character assassinate his own creation.

64 comments

  1. Sarah knew the eventuality of Chuck getting rid of the Intersect … she would have to make a choice between her job and him …she had 2 years to make that decision, as that was the goal they were working towards, especially in S2. So Sarah had to prioritize …which was more important ? She also had some time to think of alternative scenarios. Perhaps Chuck could have become an analyst …that way she could still possibly work with him. She constantly told him he could be anything he wanted to be, and he actually seemed to enjoy going on missions ( as Carol has noted ). Lots of possibilities for Sarah …and lots of time to make plans.

    But Sarah’s first instinct is to put her job before Chuck. Even if she wanted Chuck to become an analyst, her priority was her job. Of course, she had never broached the subject of Chuck becoming an analyst with him …. I guess Chuck was supposed to read her mind. In any case, she has to reject Chuck…and (yes Chris ) it broke her heart to do so. Chuck didn’t see her expressions ….but Chuck didn’t stay mad for long, either. It just confirmed to him that she was out of his league, and she was doing what she had to in order to handle the asset. He knows she cares for him too ….he doesn’t shun her at the dance, and only has good things to say about her. Chuck is very used to being put down and humiliated, and it usually slides off his back like water off a duck. Nothing has really changed here …his priority that day is Ellie, not himself, and that becomes his focus.

    Chris says, “None of this was Sarah’s fault, but some believe Sarah should just walk away, but that’s not being realistic by any stretch.”

    That’s an odd statement, since when Sarah is reminded of who Chuck actually is ( by what he does for Ellie ), she decided she was just going to walk away. She was going to tell Chuck she was staying …. so Sarah could have done that earlier in the day as well. Obviously that possibility was there. It just wasn’t her first choice.

    • Yes, Gary she was preparing mentally to walk away from her job, but like a football coach becoming a lifer in what he or she does. Sarah was never really going to walk away from her work. They say the person you answer the phone the most tends to be the relationship you are in. Chuck may be her companion or person of intimacy, but her love was being a CIA Agent. Even in Season Five when she jumped out of bed with the thought of someone breaking into their house, but was really the paperboy. Sarah may separate for a while but either the job or the itch would bring her back into the game.

    • That’s why it may have been a fool’s errand to try to separate the 2 entities…. Sarah is, in essence, a spy. It is what she identifies her self with and her self worth is wrapped up in her career. While we know that Sarah’s first instinct is to chose her job, there is nothing wrong with that choice. She is choosing to do exactly what Chuck did in Prague …it is for the greater good to do her job, and choosing Chuck would be selfish. Chuck understands this, and can reconcile it with the knowledge that he was never really in her league.

      For some reason, when Chuck decides to do exactly the same thing in Prague, he is vilified for it and somehow deserves to suffer. This is probably because of where they are starting and where they need to go. Chuck needs to fulfil his potential and make something of himself, so choosing to be a spy was the right call ( although we know the mistake he made in Prague). Sarah should have put her personal growth ahead of her career, since she needs that. But I don’t really blame her for choosing her career over Chuck. Some of the blame would be on leading Chuck on at the end of S2, but that is easy to forgive because WE know how she truly feels ( Chuck doesn’t ever know how she truly feels). As the writers tend to provide mirrored events, Prague and asking Sarah to go away with him were the same thing. There were just very different reactions to the character’s choices. Since it was a spy comedy, choosing to be a spy was always the right call !!

      • but is it?

        When the writers allow the love story to grow and blossom into bigger then the spy story is it fair to discredit the efforts simply because of the fact its supposed to be a spy story?

        I tend to love shows that can evolve from the beginning but it seems to fall short because of ego

      • But Bruce Wayne identifies himself as the bat. Oliver Queen wants to end his career as the arrow but the greater good drags him back in is there no end to the madness Gary?

      • It’s not necessarily madness, Chris. Some people feel a higher calling. Those who do often come from very disparate backgrounds. Some are born into greatness, others work towards greatness ( often mentored ) ….and a very lucky few are blessed with gifts that make them special. Working for the greater good is a matter of conscience. There is always another evil that pops up, so it can be a thankless task to always be fighting it, but that’s the way it is …it’s the way of the world.

      • I actually don’t agree with Kelly about Prague. I agree that Chuck should have ( and could have) explained himself , but I also note that the writers REALLY had to change a normal Chuck habit (of talking too much) in order to achieve the “hurt” of Prague. I really don’t agree that Sarah was “all in” in Prague…if she was, she wouldn’t have had to lie. She wouldn’t have gotten rid of Chuck Bartowski and replaced him with Hector Calderone. Her speech in Prague was full of contradictions, and I don’t think Kelly picked up on them at all. Plus, Sarah wasn’t even “all in” when she finally accepted Chuck in Other Guy. She couldn’t say she loved him, she didn’t want to move in with him…… so, I’m hard on Sarah for not trusting Chuck to complete his spy training and remain Chuck.

        I also note that no one seems mad at Sarah for choosing to be a spy over Chuck in The Ring. That’s when I note the bias in the story. So if Sarah doesn’t get any flack for blowing Chuck off when he asks her to go on a vacation with him, then Chuck shouldn’t get the flack for Prague….just to balance things out !!!

        And I agree that they’re a forever couple …they do balance each other out. But Chuck does become a spy in spite of Sarah’s demotivational attempts in S3 and her lack of belief in him. In essence, Chuck was correct about his decisions in S3, and Sarah was completely wrong. Sarah was not going to leave the spy life for Chuck, so Chuck had to join it. Even if they ran in Prague, I’m sure it would have been Casey or Shaw that tracked them down, and they then would have “rejoined” the CIA with some lame excuse. ( I mean, Shaw NEEDED Sarah to fight the Ring….and Casey had a soft spot for them.) Or Sarah would have just come to her senses when she saw how miserable Chuck was ….and that he was really no longer “her Chuck”.

  2. I don’t vilify Chuck for choosing to be an agent. I would dope slap him for not explaining to Sarah why, Kelly does an excellent job of dissecting their motivations. I feel he largely agrees with me, neither is a villain. After reading his book (not quite done yet but close) I’m surprised you’re so anti Sarah Gary. I admire her, 4 years is not a lot of time to essentially come back from the dead but with Chuck’s help she makes it. They need each other. Without Chuck, Sarah is still the CIA’s top assassin and hating herself for it. Without Sarah (and the intersect) Chuck is still repairing computers at the Buy More. And I think they are a forever couple, partly because I like happy endings, but mostly because every time they hit a rough patch they manage to work through it. They also have a great support group around them. By mid season 5 Sarah is finally ready to quit the CIA and start a family with Chuck and Chuck finally feels like he has earned Sarah.

  3. I see what your trying to do, bit you’re talking about the show, in a way, as of it is real life. Your analysis doesn’t take into account the show’s creative staff – or “life givers” as it were.

    I suppose I come from a time when both existed, as opposed to anytime after show ended.

    There was a cataclysmic shift in the show and story after S2. The writers had created a very strong, independent, likeable character which the fans were totally smitten by. Unfortunately in wasn’t the show’s titular character. So although everything yo write cab explained as Sarah being weaker because she has reconnected with her emotional self, it could also be explained by (and was a huge topic of discussion at the time) as the show’s creators deliberately weakening Sarah in order to prop up Chuck. In fact, in 4 of the 5 finales from S3 onward, the showrunners essentially “fridge” Sarah do that Chuck can have his BDHM.

    If you listen to CF talk about the final beach scene, that scene is all about Chuck and has nothing to do with Sarah.

    So….

    ” Sarah Lisa Walker”

    For a lot of fans the prenup was the show’s lame attempt at fixing the name reveal. (Something there was no way to fix.)

    “Sarah’s game seemed to weaken in the first half of S3, but did she ever really recover?”

    No. Not even close. I’m pretty sure Sarah doesn’t even throw a knife after S2.

    Sarah going to Russia

    I could buy Sarah going to Russia, vs the Gobbler notwithstanding. My issue with it is that Sarah wasn’t the one to end what appeared to be a very long term mission, like Chuck’s mom never did. No Mary had to tell her that she was sending her home. Hence, Sarah learns nothing in a hopeless to redeem Mary, who can’t be redeemed.

    As far as character assassination, that happened in S3. S5 killed the show.

    • Cant…that was one of the things that bothered me as I watched the series…the fact that they couldn’t write a character as being stronger without simultaneously making someone else weaker. It’s like they didn’t trust the fans to “get it”. For example, they can’t introduce Cole into S2 as a super-suave James Bond type spy and have him be an OLP for Sarah, without making Chuck the extreme opposite for those episodes. ( It was really evident when they gave him a gun ….and he didn’t know how to hold it. Hard to believe a hard core FPS gamer wouldn’t know how to hold a gun….). Then they weakened Ellie’s character to introduce Justin, etc., etc.

      As for Sarah, she was obviously still a strong agent after S2 …marauding through Europe to get brought into Volkoff’s agency probably required some dirty work, and we can’t forget the badass rampaging through Thailand. But at the same time, we never really see Sarah do the dirty work, so I guess they were trying to “rehabilitate her” in the eyes of the viewership.

      Just to throw something out there for those who wish to comment. What would everyone have thought if the Baby episode was written into the series much earlier ? IMHO, it’s the only decent episode in S5 ….and perhaps one of the best of the series.

      • vs the baby is a very schizophrenic episode. It is simultaneously a good episode and a horrible episode.

        It’s good because of all the heartwarming scenes. But it’s horrible because it makes no sense with the backstory we already knew.

        I would rather they had never presented Baby (and/or Santa Suit) and gave us 1 or 2 episodes after the beach scene.

        However the scene where Sarah finally reunites with mom and she says, “Chuck taught me anything was possible.” (Or something like that) would have made a much better ending than the one we got.

      • Captain and Gary. The problem with Baby is not when it aired because essentially its the final stand alone for Sarah, but it also is apart of the pilot. What do we know of Sarah between the three episodes. (Nacho Sampler)

        The fact is Sarah wasn’t Agent Walker like she was a member of the Cat Squad. “For a long time I was like Heather Chandler.” She didn’t want to be anymore. I think there is truth to “All my friends were Bruce friends.” Sarah was looking for an escape and Burbank was the perfect soft landing she was looking for.

        She said she didn’t want to plant roots but evidence shows she did so. It’s why the Hannah eating with Bartowski clan was a major blow that sent Sarah rushing to Shaw. We never see Sarah kiss Shaw until after seeing Hannah with her “family.” Now some would say the misery arc was terrible for the series but I think really only two episodes did the series in Mask was terrible because of the sexual harassment theme with Shaw and while I do like Fake Name. I find it to be interesting what would the story be like if Bryce didn’t leave the series. What do you think Capt.

      • The misery arc would be “somewhat” better with Bryce. The main thing being is that Bryce is charming, has charisma and has some history, none of which Shaw has.

        There were very few fans you could see why Sarah would ever fall for Shaw, other than that how it was written. Fans weren’t seeing it because there was zero onscreen chemistry between the actors, therefore they weren’t buying it. In fact a good argument had been made that Shaw was Sarah’s gay friend. One person had stated the story would have worked better if Shaw was a woman (LI for Chuck, confidant for Sarah).

        One of the issues with the misery arc for a lot of fans was the fact that C&S weren’t allowed to talk for much too long. Bryce alone would not fix this.

        But by far the biggest issue with the misery was Sarah. End of Mask, all of Fake Name, all of Beard, most of American Hero, and a good chunk of Other Guy – Sarah Walker was an unrecognizable pod person. Swapping Bryce for Shaw wouldn’t fix this. The Sarah character was extremely poorly served by S3.

        So no, Bryce alone wouldn’t fix the misery arc.

    • Captain,

      I think when we sit back and rewatch the show as whole there are major mistakes from a writing aspect, but when we take a piece of writing and say this was bad or that was bad is from a a subjective mind set. I have never said I liked the misery arc from a shaw/sarah side of things, but Shaw did offer substance to the spy story. There is nothing wrong with having a villain masked as good guy. I think if Shaw never mixed up with Sarah maybe we would be singing a different tune. I do like Shaw getting the most out of the Intersect. There was a stretch of episodes in S3 where Chuck worked great. The balance as the man and the program didn’t matter that much because Shaw showed faith in him. Something Team Bartowski and Beckman never really appreciated even after Shaw was gone.

      However, I am not a fan of Shaw returning in S5. I for one love Nicholas Quinn and how he impacted the characters. I can’t stand the fact they left a bad guy like that for four episodes is my gripe. The bridge from Decker should of been Quinn.

      Sarah’s trip to Russia would of been the same for Mary indeed, and as a writer would been interesting to see Orion and Chuck work together to get their women back, but of course the writers killed off Orion, but did they? You should read my theory of whether or not Orion was killed and should that be the basis of a revival .
      Read the article and comment their Captain would love to read your thoughts.

      • I’m not a fan of Shaw, it’s well known. He’s shows no faith in Chuck imo, he’s testing him. And other than one mission on a plane, Shaw is not involved in Chuck’s development in the least. So we’ll just agree to disagree on how much Plywood brought to story.

        However, show wise, the character didn’t help. At least not for as long as he was there. The breaking up of Team B (something the show was built on) and the lack of interplay between the original 3 when Shaw is in an episode, is very evident. And the show suffered for it, not many people debate this. Just look at 3.06 and 3.10 (Shawless episodes) at how much more “fun” they were.

        So although the character may have required if this were real life, on this show the character weighted it down, and sucked the fun out of it.

        If they had kept Shaw to 4 episodes, as was the original plan, we likely would not be discussing his merits or failings.

        As far as Stephen, he should stay dead.

      • Showing no faith in Chuck isn’t Shaw’s position. The Intersect was the focus, I don’t see anything wrong with that. Shaw’s focus was to defeat the Ring. Remember his only case was the Ring and was believed the faction killed his wife. I see nothing wrong with trying to get the computer to work as an advantage. It’s the writing that bothers most which I understand, but again I take no issue with a series trying to reinvent themselves.

        I honestly don’t believe a simple yes is good enough to resolve all the issues the characters went through in the first part of Chuck much like I don’t like Chuck not explaining himself in PRague. I don’t like Casey and Chuck not trusting Sarah with telling her the truth about the Red Test.

      • BTW, you had asked whether or not Bryce would have made a difference in S3.

        Since I don’t see the new team member as having any influence on Chuck’s development as a spy other than in First Class (which Beckman could have handled). I’ll stand by my original assessment – Bryce wouldn’t fix the misery arc. The main problem was Sarah’s story during this time.

      • The misery arc reduced Adam Baldwin to a guest starring role.

        Casey was essentially non-existant during this show’s story.

      • Because he wasn’t the leader of the unit. He even said it “When a special agent spy comes in he usually get to do and say what he wants.” Capt. The Ring was no joke I mean how good was Casey if he didn’t know a Ring Operative was in his unit? one that got into Castle and shot Roark? It means casey was slipping.

      • You see, I simply don’t care what Shaw’s focus was.

        Shaw was only a spy until Mask, when he became an LI and started dragging down the show. The second Mask was done, the Chuckapocolypse stated. 5 minutes into Fake Name most fans had had enough of the character. The angst level the show was pushing because of this character while at the same time turning a favorite into a space cadet rendered ANY story they were trying to tell irrelevant.

        The Netflix generation cannot appreciate what it was like to live through this in real time. By the end of the misery arc, even those who liked S3 still say Shaw was a huge problem.

        You’re only looking at it from a story pov (and hey, fill your boots), but from an overall show pov Shaw the character shoulders a lot of the blame for the epic badness of the misery arc.

      • No I can’t appreciate the week to week aspect of what you went through, but the story was the same as when you watched it. I don’t think Netflix gets a copy you didn’t see.

        I can only go by the story I saw and from my pov which isn’t right or wrong. I see the need for Shaw. I am an unconventional watcher. I like Ralphie in Sopranos because he challenged Tony. I never like a smooth ride for characters because it’s unrealistic.

        It’s one of the reasons I didn’t like Friends. Not ever situation calls for a happy ending except for the way Chuck ended. I have always liked Cheers ending because I got it. Sam’s love is the bar thus no matter what DIane and Rebecca offered Sam. He never was going to leave the Bar. Same with Sarah as a spy and the same with Shaw and the quest to revenge his wife’s death.

        Some may hate it, but I enjoyed S3 because of the different avenue the series tried to go on with the exception of The Mask because of the way Shaw was using his position of power to overpower Walker. I found it to be sleezy.

        Sorry man, but we agree to disagree about S3. Gary often gets mad at me for having this view, but Shaw is my fourth favorite character behind Sarah, Chuck and Orion.

      • Again your looking at the story and not the overall show. Routh was the guest star but all of a sudden Baldwin (a fan favorite) is no longer around.

        Also, the Ring was a total joke. The S3 finale made this abundantly clear.

        Something that was highlighted in vs the GoodBye.

      • As we get through the Shaw debacle, it seemed to me that Shaw wasn’t trying to do anything with Chuck as far as turning him into a spy…he sent him on a plane, and then had Sarah bail him out. From my POV, he seemed more interested in getting Sarah back to her old ways, which made getting rid of Chuck imperative. Making Sarah give Chuck the Red Test was the dagger through the heart he was looking for …he knew Chuck couldn’t “win” that test. If he completes it, Sarah is emotionally separated from Chuck. If he doesn’t, he leaves the spy life to return to his former life in Burbank….thus being physically separated from Sarah. Either way, Shaw wins in having Sarah return to the fold. Getting Chuck ( and the Intersect ) to work didn’t ever really seem like the endpoint. I think that ‘s why he never did anything spy-like after First Class …it was all about getting in between Sarah and Chuck.

        I certainly didn’t like Casey’s role either …he was there for Chuck when it mattered….. he just wasn’t there enough. And dedicating an episode to him seemed to not help the overall storyline, other than finally allowing Sarah to tell the truth about what her major beef with Chuck was …( ” I thought you’d change…”)

    • Indeed, Indeed It is so true how Sarah’s character was weakened after season 3. I think that Chris Fedak just couldn’t accept that the “nerd gets the girl”.

      • Carol…I would argue that her character was weakened FOR S3 ….Sarah couldn’t function as either an agent or a GF…and she was left voiceless. That’s how the misery arc worked. What’s odd is what Fedak wanted Agent Walker to be …. a cross between Sydney from Alias and Jack Bauer. She was the badass in the first 2 seasons. But Fedak always approached it as “the nerd sometimes gets the girl” ( a dream of his own making, I would think ), and in essence, he does. Unfortunately, he has to let the HS QB have his way with her first, and a few of the jocks along the way. SO the story ends up being…”the good hearted nerd comes in and mops up the mess left by all the jocks, who get the girl first.”

        😉

  4. The backstory isn’t ever really elucidated in any coherent fashion. It would be crazy to think that Sarah was this wild card assassin and, just by meeting Chuck, she becomes this love-sick school girl. I think part of the Baby could have been used to tell why Sarah was so Hell-bent on changing once she headed to Burbank. Of course, it wasn’t really needed due to the fact that Sarah / Yvonne charmed us and we never really saw her as a cold-blooded assassin in the first place.

    But even Chris mentions that Sarah is not the same person when she gets to Burbank as she was in the Cat Squad …and that’s kinda interesting….. if we go along with the back story that is presented to us, Sarah hasn’t even completed her Red Test when she is with the Cat Squad…she isn’t the lone wolf that Ryker talks about ( she has “friends” in Carina and Zondra ) ….

    And Captain…I agree with your assessment of Sarah in S3. People say I’m hard on Sarah, but really I’m hard on the way Sarah was written, because I REALLY like the Sarah in the first 2 seasons. I liked the interactions between Sarah and Chuck in the first 2 seasons. I liked the growth of Sarah and Chuck in the first 2 seasons ….it was organic. In S3, I like that Chuck grows professionally, but I don’t like the way he has to do it ( it doesn’t really make sense ), and I hate that they present Sarah as a pitiful mess. Even though the first 2 seasons see the 2 of them communicating in code and double speak, they get to say things with their emotions that belie their words. In S3, there is NO communication, which would be highly unlikely given who they were supposed to be and given how much they were supposed to care for each other. It was just frustrating to watch….

    • Gary, I’m bothered by you saying that calling Chuck Hector Calderone in Prague is some kind of lie or betrayal. If Chuck and Sarah are going on the run from the CIA, he can’t have a passport that says Charles Bartowski, they would grab him before he got 50 miles. He has to use a fake name and keep changing it. When Sarah says “This is real” she means what they feel for each other is real. The CIA is not only fake names, it’s fake relationships and for Sarah at least a real concern about if you are truly serving the greater good. Running isn’t a good idea, but I don’t think Sarah is lying to Chuck.

      • I think the idea of running was not really planned out. We learned in Colonel that would be impossible. She even said in the Pilot they couldn’t run from the agency. Honeymooners shows the lengths Beckman would of gone to get them back.

        I mean Chuck had government property in his head so…The baddie in Honeymooners said one of the best lines when it came to the whole running idea. Arnaldo said “May I just say I’ve been on the run for two years, and no matter how far you run, you can never run from yourself.”

        So no they wouldn’t of been able to run. Besides Chuck is a terrible running partner. He called Ellie while on the lam in Colonel Terrible just terrible idea which tells me Sarah wasn’t around for that call.

      • Lonny…. you’re mixing up what was said and the symbolism of what was said. I don’t mean that Sarah was lying to Chuck per se, and, yes….he needed an alias. But we talk about symbolism a lot in the series as a whole. Sarah’s concern with Chuck was him becoming a spy and her, therefore losing “her Chuck’…or more specifically …the Chuck she met in the Pilot. Sarah, of course, won’t tell Chuck her REAL concern, instead picking a fake concern that she voices before they run. ( Notice that her “concerns” are exactly the thing they will have to do when they are running.) You have to look, though, at the juxtaposition of the words Sarah says in Prague….”Chuck, this is “real”, but then closely followed by the presentation of a “fake” passport and a “fake” name. In rhetorical terms, that is irony, and many writers use it to point something fake out to us. If you take the words at face value, they mean nothing …you have to understand how writers write, and the use of rhetorical devices. Some wish to watch the series one way, others wish to watch it in a deeper manner. G. Walter Bush is able to point out the use of visual devices which tell the story, as well as the words. Chuck’s writers and directors were very skilled at telling a story within a story, using visual devices and rhetorical devices.

    • Gary,

      Zondra really wasn’t a friend. Remember Sarah thought Zondra had become a double agent so they were on the outs. Nice friend in Carina when she arrives at Burbank and brawls with her as a hello.

      • Zondra WAS Sarah’s best friend in The Cat Squad, and, yes, they had a fight when Sarah found the device in Zondra’s boot, but Zondra was “cleared” by a polygraph. For crying out loud, Chris, I know the story and the animosity that was portrayed at the start of that episode, but they mention that they were best friends and were happy to have the relationship restored.

  5. “No I can’t appreciate the week to week aspect of what you went through, but the story was the same as when you watched it. I don’t think Netflix gets a copy you didn’t see.”

    No actually. Binge watching a show is totally not the same as watching week to week. The story may be the same, but the experience isn’t. S3 grew into something that was bigger than show starting at Comic-Con that year. By the time the show aired fans were expecting it to be bad. Unfortunately it was much worse than that. Fans didn’t like the new show or (more precisely) the new characters required for this new show. By Mask, critical mass had been reached. You can thank the Chuckapocolyse for Honeymooners.

    Many “insiders”, who received advance screeners (at the time) of S3 ep 1 to 5 and then 8 to 11, were totally baffled by the fan’s negative reaction to story.

    So no, it’s not the same.

    • Here, Here! Capt Mediocre. I watched it week to week and it was agonizing. What was your reaction to the finally? I’d like to know.

      • Carol,

        The finale ruined the series for me.

        It’s like we got 91 chapters of a 92 chapter book.

        Without Sarah regaining her memories (or more specifically those that pertain to Chuck) there is no point to the entire journey.

        I have not rewatched any ep since the finale.

        Although the writers may have wanted to leave the ending of the show ambiguous, what they actually did was rob the fans of being able to say googbye to the characters.

      • You are so on point. I had not re-watched Chuck since last summer because I received the DVDs as a Xmas present and could not get myself to see it just because I remember that ending. Having nothing to watch I saw it over the summer the ending still gets to me and I really hope that there is a movie just to give the fans a truly happy ending. Unfortunately, the older the cast gets it will be hard to sell certain scenes that Chuck could get away with. It will be hard to keep the x-factor that made that show great without acknowledging the fact that they have all grown up, matured and moved on. Lets hope that if they were to do a movie that would do it well. Of course without Yvonne Strahovski as Sarah Walker, they’ll be just wasting their time.
        Thanks for the feedback.

      • Captain and Carol,

        I feel that’s why there is such a need for a Chuck revival. There was no closure. Some believe the kiss work while others say they felt left at the altar.

        My issue with the finale comes with the whole idea of a cliffhanger as a way of going out. Captain said it right. when reading a book. Chris Fedak was hell bent on making sure Chuck came out as the hero in most cases, he would neglect characters as a result. It almost was like a mad scientist destroying his creation.

        It’s not fair to the fans and those that spent five years creating characters fans related to for so long, but then again do people really now how to end a story? Look at sopranos. I was so pissed for being blacked Screened.

      • Chris, I really think we have a chance for movie. Netflix just announced a 4 episode limited series so why not Chuck. Crossing my fingers. 🙂

  6. Carol said “Of course without Yvonne Strahovski as Sarah Walker, they’ll be just wasting their time.”

    Ever since the ballgame and the unexpected silence between Zac and Yvonne, there has been absolutely NO chatter about a Chuck revival. Usually we get a bit of “hope”, usually from Zac, but sometimes from the cast, about a Chuck reunion. There was nothing this year…so far. This doesn’t bode well. But, then again, Gilmore Girls has been revived as a 4-episode series on Netflix, so only time will tell.

    As for the finale …at first I hated it, but subsequent re-watches and new perspectives made it OK for me. Sarah “leaves” to find herself ….but finds herself on the beach. She is not the slight bit surprised that Chuck comes to her. Their story is told, which was a nice way to revisit the series. Sarah shows ALL the emotions during the retelling of their story ( isn’t she supposed to be emotionless ?) She asks for the kiss….but while I thought she asked for the kiss to “restore her memories”, I find now that it was more of a chance to reconnect with Chuck. To me, the memories are her head talking to her….the kiss is her heart talking to her. I’m certainly OK with that.

    And I totally get why others aren’t, because that was my reaction the first time. And I understand Captain saying we didn’t get a chance to say goodbye to the characters….. at least, the Sarah that we had watch evolve. But I have no doubt now that they are together …..and the “memory” thing is irrelevant (to me)….. but it gives a little bit of jumping off point should a reunion take place.

    • Gary, I don’t know what happened but twitter was saying that fans were mad and being rude to her(Yvonne) because of a picture that said that it was her new boyfriend. That was two weeks ago and I was oblivious to what happened. It is so sad that fans that are obsessed ruin it for all of us. She really hasn’t tweeted alot and I don’t blame her. Not everything that is on the internet is true.
      Chuck was a good series and deserved a happy ending, Ok Chris Fedak wanted that ending,, but for the fans who kept that show on for the last 3 years they or we deserved a “happy ending”. Why not? Let the nerd get the girl.

      • Glass half full or half empty ……. I don’t see any possibility of Chuck and Sarah NOT being together. She doesn’t remember everything that happened for the last 5 years, but she asks Chuck to kiss her. There can be no reason for her to do that and then leave him at the beach….with or without her memories. But I can understand why you may have your doubts …. I just don’t have them.

        I missed the firestorm about that photo of her with her boyfriend. I saw the photo, but there was no context to it. Yvonne doesn’t write the caption for a stalker photo …. it may or may not have been her BF. Of course, some people are convinced that Gianluigi is her BF. Don’t know, don’t really care who she goes out with. I’m just a bit concerned about her relationship with Zac….

  7. You never know what goes on off screen. Years after the X-Files went off the air, it came out that the leads did not like each other. Yet here we are with an X-Files revival. It’s not necessary for Zach and Yvonne to be a couple. They are not Chuck and Sarah. I hope they can each find someone who makes them happy. As for NetFlix, in a recent poll they conducted to find out what shows subscribers wanted to see brought back “Chuck” unfortunately finished last, and it wasn’t close.

    I did not like the ending. I agreed with a woman on YouTube who commented that she just wasted 5 years, the entire series was pointless. Fedak said he wanted to bring the series “full circle” and let the fans supply their own ending. Schwarz said he thought the kiss meant they were well on the path to re-establishing their love. Fanfics are all over the map, though nearly all have them eventually together. My doubt, treating this as a real situation, is that Sarah is not in the same place she was in “Pilot”. She seems to respond to Chuck, but what will keep her in LA to develop the relationship? She will have to find a job and I’m sure the CIA/NSA will welcome her back. That will reinforce her Agent persona and take her away from Chuck. I don’t know, it just made me very sad.

    • Practically the first thing out of Chris Carter mouth after the announcement of the X-Files revival was that Scully and Mulder would no longer be together.

      THAT, right there, is why I have little desire for a Chuck movie. Although I’m sure CF wanted us to think C&S fell in live all over again. The fact is that they really starting fron scratch with no promises as to the outcome. They are now both (well mostly Chuck) different people than they were 5 years previous. And let’s face it, Chuck is nowhere as endearing as he was in S1 and S2.

      So I just really don’t think the showrunners will be able to help themselves and have the movie imply or start off with some sort of Chuck and Sarah estrangement. An immediate deal breaker for me.

    • Lonny, remember when Casey had both Sarah and Chuck in separate cells because they failed to get Quinn. Chuck tried to tell her the things that endeared him to her and yet after all that she was escaping when Casey opened her cell door to Chuck’s surprise. Chuck will need to warm his way back into her heart to get her back. Is it possible that Chris thought they might get a 6th season and so left it open like that? Only he knows.
      Since Chuck cannot get away with the things he did in S1 and S2, they might need to concentrate in missions and less in the buymore yet still season it with personal conundrums. They had higher viewership when the show had more action and less comedy. Time is of essence.

      • Carol said, ” Chuck will need to warm his way back into her heart to get her back.”

        But he already has …. if you look to see the clues. If you look at her reactions to him, even when under Quinn’s control ….. she cannot be totally cold-hearted to him, even though he is supposed to be the enemy. Does she have her doubts ? Sure….until she finds out that she has been played.

        Why go back to the courtyard to tell him she believes him ? Why return to the Buy More ? Why actually go to the beach ??

        Remember in Phase 3 that Chuck had lost “all of what made him ” as they wiped his memory. But the fact is that Sarah cannot be wiped away from him, because she is a part of him. It is the same with Sarah…even though she has no “memory” of Chuck, he is part of her. The series tried to get us to believe in what our hearts tell us, rather than our heads ( where our memories are supposed to live). I can see here that so many people need to follow their heads ( and their eyes, and their memories ) rather than their hearts. The ending showed me that Chuck and Sarah are together in each others hearts …… I have long since dismissed the memories as important.

      • Our hearts want us to believe they are together or will be together yet our logic and the fact that are memories were suppress make us doubt that a magic kiss would restore her memories. At the beach, Sarah is open to trying everything to get her life back and “yes” there was a second kiss yet the doubt is there whether the relationship is restored. Once Quinn revealed to Sarah that Chuck was telling her the truth and he took a bullet for her, saw the DVD, and read the files,yes she wants her life back. My point is that when they are in the cell and Chuck is telling her what she liked about him, she didn’t seem too interested about what they had and was escaping without him to Chuck’s surprise. What I believe helped to reel her in towards working with the Bartowski team is the fact that Ellie and Chuck wanted to get the glasses back to help her restore her memories. A genuine expression of selflessness which we all loved about Ellie and Chuck. Finally, Chuck deep desire to help her but deciding on the greater good in helping the General and all the concert audience.
        Gary, remember how it bothers you that Sarah took a few weeks to forgive Chuck for Prague, well this is similar because she is angry at what she lost. Granted it was not Chuck’s fault or anyone else close to her; but suddenly all those relationship that were cultivated for 5 years have been all suppressed. We know that she has trust issues and that is Chuck’s advantage in this case; he knows her well enough to charm his way back into her life, but it will not be instantaneous but a few weeks at least because the attraction and love will always be there. Remember S3 E12 where she told that she fell in love with him after he fixed her phone and before he started defusing bombs so that same Sarah that was attracted to Chuck on pilot is the same one that now has reappeared. Therefore the journey should be much easier, but there is a journey involved. We need the movie.

  8. Carol….if you want to use logic…then Sarah and Chuck are done after Prague !! LOL

    C’mon Carol…go with your heart, because your head is only screwing things up !! 😉

    • Gary, my heart wants to believe, but it’s hard to believe that the magical kiss and unsuppress her memories like Cinderella. If it was a series based on fantasy like Enchanted then I accept it but its hard to just think that everything was fine and dandy after the kiss at the beach.

      • Ah yes…the memories. Don’t know why she needs her memories myself. That, too, was my original focus, but then I came to the realization that everything she is doing has nothing to do with her memories….and yet she is trying to reconnect to Chuck. Morgan ( and Chuck ) have implored us to stop using our heads and to stop trying to use logic. Morgan asks Chuck to FEEL where Sarah is….not to try to figure it out. Sarah is at the beach ….with absolutely no memory of it. She is not surprised that Chuck shows up. If reconnecting with Chuck relied on her memories, she never would have gone there ….and never would have expected him to show up. Sarah remembers enough ….especially when she gets her head out of the way ….so the memories will come. But the point seems to be she doesn’t need them ….she doesn’t need to remember who Chuck was …she needs to know who he is. He said he would never change ….and in essence, he hasn’t. Besides, he has always had to win her over….again and again…and again. I’m sure he can do it…. again.

        But, if the focus is solely on her memories rather than her love of Chuck, then the relationship is doomed. We can never live in the past ….. her past love for Chuck would never sustain her love in the future. You have to fall in love with the person in front of you every single day ….even Sarah and Chuck.

        I understand that the memories are the logical “want” of the fans. We remember the 91 episodes, so we feel that Sarah has to as well. But Sarah is not a fan of the show ….she is Chuck’s romantic interest. Each time she left, she came back to Burbank. The story should be that love is enduring. I guess the fans have said her memories are more important. Nothing wrong with those priorities !!

      • Well put Gary. What made the fans love the show was Chuck & Sarah’s relationship. It would be nice to see the team together again. The fact that Sarah wanted the kiss says alot.

  9. Gary, you’re right, she does not need to remember Chuck to love him. I think what the fans want is to see them going into their apartment together. Or for Sarah to say she’s going to stay and give them a chance. Something to show she doesn’t stand up. brush the sand from her jeans and say “Sorry Chuck, nothing”.
    and walk away.

    • Sorry, Lonny ….I just disagree with that. Just the fact that she is on the beach and that she asks for a kiss is proof that she feels SOMETHING. The emotions she showed while watching the DVD’s belie the words she told Chuck in the courtyard. She already FEELS plenty. If she didn’t, she wouldn’t be at the beach, since she has no memory of it. She wouldn’t have asked for a kiss. She wouldn’t have continued with a second kiss…or a prolonged kiss. The kiss ( IMHO ) is not about the memories ….she kisses Chuck because she wants to …because she feels the connection enough to want to kiss him. There is no other reason for her to do what she does.

      • Other than “kiss me”, I don’t think Sarah says one positive thing in the final two episodes. ALL her lines are meant to ramp up the angst level. So don’t expect me to “read” Sarah’s expressions as positive when her dialogue is all negative.

        The issue is that CF wants them to “fall in love again”. This can’t happen (and certainly didn’t happen on screen as it should have). Since these are not the same people that they were 5 years ago, they can’t “fall in love again”. They can only fall in love from scratch. Unless Sarah gets her meaningful momories back.

        The fact that the show never showed Sarah regaining any meaningful memories and her continuously leaving (even in the next to final scene) is more of a message than her continuously coming back for reasons she can’t understand. SHE KEPT LEAVING.

        Sarah leaving after the fountain scene was devasting and nothing that happens from then to the beach scene overcomes that scene. We simply DO NOT see her fall for Chuck again.

        The showrunners tried to fix a 99% negative, depressing story with a 1% payoff, and it doesn’t work. (They did the same thing for the misery arc.) And it really doesn’t work, beacause it really wasn’t a payoff. Reconciliation needs to start sooner for the payoff to be meaningful.

        I got the of Sarah losing her memories 10 minutes into vs Sarah and kept waiting for them to start fixing it (which would have been GREAT). But since they never fixed it, I’m still waiting for it.

        The series ending at the beach was a great idea. The series ending at the beach the way it did – is wholly imcomplete.

    • Lonny,

      The backstory of Chuck and Sarah has to play into this discussion. The history of constant debacles and the government always looming. No one ever takes in account the line of enemies Sarah and Chuck had made during the course of Five Seasons. Who’s to saw Shaw doesn’t return or Quinn.

      We want to see Chuck and Sarah still together, but for how long before some other crazy scenario only the series can deliver I am with Captain on this one.

      If I was to see a movie or mini series done it would be a prequel. all the events that lead up to 2007 would be interesting to see.

      • A prequel would just look stupid, unless you do it like a 24 reboot and go with completely different actors. Not sure I want to see Chuck with all new, younger actors portraying these characters. Nor do I want to see a late 30’s Zac and Yvonne play early 20-somethings, not to mention 40 something Morgan doing the same.

        As for Sarah leaving, sure she left…and there is nothing to draw her back. But yet, there she is. I agree that something really stupid happened after Berlin. That story didn’t fit with what was supposed to happen. Yvonne said that Sarah was supposed to start noticing the things that she loved about Chuck and was starting to fall for him again. It was there in Berlin, but it fell apart in Castle. After that, she looked a little disgusted that Chuck wasn’t a full fledged killing machine. Don’t know if it was Yvonne’s acting, the directing, or the editing that screwed up that initial storyline. But there were positives…the beach being the big one. Asking Chuck to tell her their story ( was it just out of curiosity ?? I doubt that …). The emotions she showed when she heard the story …..And then asking for the kiss.

        My son watched the series only once ….. all the way through on Netflix. When I asked him if Sarah got her memories back, he said he thought she would …eventually. But the important thing was that Chuck and Sarah were together at the very end. After that, I started watching it …looking for what he saw that I didn’t. I didn’t see it at first, but then it just clicked for me …I stop paying attention to the words. Actions and expressions seemed much more important throughout the series…..so I focused on that, and that’s when I changed my mind. Reading G. Walter Bush and Kelly Jolley just reaffirmed what I had been seeing ….. and showing me even more.

        Don’t get me wrong…I want a movie or a 4 part mini-series…or something. But why would you EVER do a continuation of the series if Chuck and Sarah aren’t together ?

      • Gary,

        When a story has still so many questions even before the pilot. A door opened up with episodes like Tic Tac and Red Test. It would be fun to dig into the past of all the characters before the Pilot. It could be new and bring Matt Bomer back in to the fold. LEt’s face it the Bryce/Chuck/Sarah story was the best told story of the serious. We both agreed with that point.

        Have you asked yourself why did Bryce go rogue and want to destroy the Intersect. It’s an easy answer because of Orion, but there is more to it. What did Larkin know about Graham or Beckman. There are so many questions still needed to be answered. Why did they allow Frost to disappear without a trace.

        It seems to me Chuck was on the path of Volkoff with the 2.0 he was becoming a lesser person like Volkoff. Lucky for him he wasn’t too far removed were he saw himself losing himself. Did he really though?

        Do you think the Intersect is truly Chuck’s biggest nemesis?

      • I also agree with you the memories are not important as making sure they are together because what would the previous four years be worth if the ending was them apart. It would be mischaracter of injustice for the viewer and those who put the work in. I believe Chuck and Sarah would be fine, but still have the same problems they have before.

  10. Jeez Chris…the story has to start somewhere. Because it started when Chuck met Sarah, the romance was always going to be the focus …..even the Intersect lost it’s lustre in Season 3. Do you REALLY want to see these old actors portraying early 20 somethings ? Yvonne could just barely get away with playing an 18 year old when she was 25 …..do you really think she can play a 21 year old when she’s 35 or 36 ??? No way you’ll ever get Zac or Josh to look like early 20 somethings either. But yet again, your focus on the past would totally preclude Chuck (and Morgan) from actually being in the revival, since his life for the previous 5 years was exactly what we saw when he downloaded the Intersect. Nothing new to portray. So I doubt very much a prequel makes any sense at all, since Zac ( the only one that’s been pushing for a continuation ) would have no part in the story. No…it’s best to tell the story you want, and then allude to the past in flashback’s.

    Plus Chris….why would you ever watch Chuck if the story was Sarah and Bryce ?? I know you don’t like Chuck, but he is still the protagonist. Pretty dumb to do a movie named Chuck with him ( and his relationship to Sarah )not in it.

    • If the focus is supposed to be on the spy and hero than the relationship isn’t the focus. We can change the title to the Intersect because the focus was supposed to be about a human with a special brain. This was what the series made you to believe would be the story. The Romance took on its life on its own. Chuck and Sarah can’t be mentioned without Larkin because Bryce was an important character. If there was no Bryce Larkin there is no Sarah and Chuck

      • I’m afraid it wouldn’t fly without Chuck in it….sorry Chris. You still haven’t addressed how they can get the actors to play characters 15+ years their junior. Besides, the backstory has been told…at least, the most salient points. The rest is unimportant to the protagonist ( Chuck).

        No matter what the original intent was, the story took the romantic angle as it’s focus. The burning question in everyone’s mind is , “Are Chuck and Sarah together ?” The hero journey and the journey of redemption became secondary.

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