gallery Rewatch Thirty Three: Jill Returns For One Final Visit.

Chuck Vs The First Kill

The Circle of Lies

We have reached the final three episodes of Season Two, and we are about to embark major character changes. Normally, I like to write a arc article for this, but with this being Jill’s final episode we will talk more about the dynamics of Jill Roberts and her mark left on the show.

We won’t diverge into the Buymore story because there is something bigger and more important than Milbarge getting Big Mike removed as the Buymore manager. Don’t be alarmed the reason for episode articles are for cases like this. We do have an episode article for this one Chuck vs First Kill

We also have a series of article pertaining to one Jill Roberts titled the Jill Factor, there are three parts to it. Jill Roberts Factor part one, Jill Roberts Factor Part Two, Jill Roberts Factor Part Three

We know Lou and in the next season Hannah will impose there will on Sarah personally, but they never reach the level of what Jill was about to accomplish with Sarah.

Roberts role as a real spy was a game changer, and since she knew how Fulcrum worked. Bartowski needed her to help locate his father. A game changer for sure because Jill Roberts is not a bad person. Bartowski using a mark to gain leverage in this fight was a unBartowski move, but when a fight becomes personal. All hands on deck.

First Kill also provides a dark side into what the agents deal with on a day to day basis. We glorify the story of the CIA because we deem them on the right side of the law, but Jill Roberts said it best, “They are no difference between Fulcrum and The CIA. They all are the same.” Secrets and lies are all one in the same. When you keep a secret, a lie is coming soon after. A secret requires covers and on and on.

The battle begins here, First Kill opens with Sarah walking towards the Nerd Herd Desk. Chuck was sitting as she approaches, Sarah has a frozen yogurt in hand. she offers it to Chuck with the name Obama Guava. While Sarah’s motives was to cheer up Chuck, he wasn’t pleased with the government’s decision to make a new yogurt recipe over news on finding his father. Chuck220-00006

He points it out. “No that I’m not thrilled that the CIA has found a new yogurt recipe, i was just I don’t know, kinda hoping the CIA would find my father first.” Sarah tries to provide some encouragement, but it’s been the same jargon Chuck was growing tired of.

Sarah: The government is doing anything they can to find him.

Chuck: How would I know I can trust them? The government wants to keep the intersect in my head. My father is the only person who can get it out. It’s not rocket science.

In typical fashion, Sarah tries to balance the two entities. Sarah was trying to keep things in perspective for Chuck, but also maintaining in the good graces with the agency. Sarah has been down this road before. Caught in the middle of a tug of war if you will. Chuck220-00010 Chuck220-00012 Chuck220-00018Sarah asked if Chuck trusted her? Walker has used these words before, and most of the time you can see she was trying to keep Chuck in line. This time we see a different expression of feeling Chuck has began to disconnect himself from the team and agency ever since his father was taken. You can see in her eyes she doesn’t want to lose the one connection she cherishes the most. Chuck’s trust was the very words she used on the beach when they first met. Chuck220-00020

From Chuck’s perspective we can understand his gripe, as he will say in a few minutes. He has done everything they asked. He has never signed up for this. He was there for Casey when Ilsa came around. He was there for Sarah when Jack and her trip to San Diego happened, but when he needed something the government wasn’t there in return.

The government used their muscles in trying to keep Bartowski down. A agency that secretly had a hit on him once 2.0 was running.

They came up with excuses or provide nothing at all. Chuck’s stand pat was gone the minute the doors shut on his father. This was the same man that went off mission to rescue his friend from a terrible beating from the hands of the Triads (Best Friend)

He was forced to play house with a woman he loves. Yet, his father’s kidnapping made him voice his displeasure at the lack of movement on the whereabouts of his father. Chuck220-00107After Beckman gives what Chuck deems as a none update, Casey tries to remind Chuck who he was talking to, but Chuck didn’t care.

He points out the year long perks of being an agent. He also reminds them of doing what they asked him to do, but something important to him all they can provide is nothing. Chuck220-00110The glorious perks Chuck was referring to would be the dangers of the job. The near death experiences Chuck must face. He asked if they could talk to any of the captured Fulcrum agents, but Casey and Sarah said they couldn’t trust any of them.Chuck220-00114 Chuck220-00118 Chuck220-00110 Chuck220-00127

Casey’s idea of waterboarding was over due to the new administration. Sarah also believed the Fulcrum agents couldn’t be trusted even if they did speak. All easy excuses not to help Chuck. The fast thinking Chuck was present for this briefing, when he knew one Fulcrum agent he could get to talk. Jill Roberts would be the one he was talking about. Chuck220-00143Chuck220-00144Chuck’s maturation really begins to develop here. He is bold and using spycraft at his disposal. He asserted himself and conducted the interview. He talks to Jill about needing her help in locating his father.

At first Jill didn’t help, but this version of Chuck said all her problems was not his. All her choices was the reason she was behind bars.  Chuck220-00168Chuck220-00182I want to take a minute to discuss Jill and Chuck. While watching all four episodes, I can gauge Jill has real emotions for Chuck. She may be a agent working for the enemy, but her feelings for Chuck never changed. Yes, she was in prison because of Chuck, but Chuck’s right. Her actions was the cause and she knew it too.

Jill’s place in this story comes with the same glorious perks Chuck was talking about, but never saw. She kept using lines like “Just do what he says.” in Gravitron. It’s equivalent to Sarah’s “just follow orders Chuck.” Yet, we say Sarah’s heart was in place. Why couldn’t it be the same for Jill.

We know her relationship with Bryce never articulated past the point of a relationship. Jill confirmed that the last time we saw her. The problem Chuckaholics was she was on a different team. She was told to end her relationship with Bartowski so she can pursue the very computer Sarah served to protect.

It’s that unique aspect to the story that is Jill and Sarah. It’s the very reason Chuck already had a trapezoid. All the parts shared similar stories with fake rings and fake engagements. It’s really fascinating to watch.

Thus, Jill knew in her heart she had to help Stephen Bartowski, but like others wanted a deal. Casey and Sarah didn’t want Chuck to make deal, but like the two experienced agent would do, Chuck said yes even though he knew he would burn her later. It’s basic spycraft, but it’s apart of the job description. Yet, Casey and Sarah were not on board with it. I understand the risk factor of Jill being out, but I never thought Jill had bad intentions when it came to Bartowski. At least, deep down that is. Chuck220-00184 Chuck220-00188 Chuck220-00194

Let’s keep in mind, Sarah’s ill will towards Roberts comes with Jill’s attempt in killing her. Thus, Jill was not on Sarah’s Christmas list. Chuck220-00249 Chuck220-00247 Chuck220-00250

Chuck and his team were going over the details of what happened to Stephen. They asked her where Fulcrum would keep Papa B. She claimed she didn’t know, but maybe her Uncle Bernie would know.

Uncle Bernie was a cover as he worked for Fulcrum, and had a higher rank than she did. However, Jill said Bernie was heavily guarded most times. The team would ask her what that meant and she said. “only during family occasions would he be alone.”

Chuck asked if there were any functions coming up. I always wonder how would she know being in prison. Did the CIA allow visits? I am sure they did, but she was believed to have been in Helsinki? Again, the quick thinking Chuck would conjugate a scheme to get the team alone with Uncle Bernie by staging a family function.

Another clear indication Chuck was beginning to become comfortable as a spy. A key moment only heightening what Bryce said, “It’s too late for Bartowski.” He’s becoming the spy he tried to avoid. A victim of his own success was apparent. Chuck220-00252The other aspect to think about was Chuck falling into the trap of what it means to be a spy. The old by any means necessary to accomplish what the mission was at the time. Chuck needed information only Jill could provide. Thus, the classic move to stage a fake engagement announcement was in store.  A clever plan if you ask me. Chuck220-00252 Chuck220-00250Chuck220-00274The mission isn’t all that bad for Roberts. She gets to see her family even if it’s under false pretenses. She gets a dose of freedom, but she was there to work. However, there was a moment of reliving a life that Fulcrum ruined.

For a cover, Jill looks happy. She is glowing which makes one believe she was enjoying the attention. Meanwhile, the party poopers that are Casey and most specifically Sarah were not amused with the festivities. They were hoping Bernie would come to save them from the facade. Sarah does not look pleased with the way Jill’s parents were rehashing memories of the past. Chuck220-00282 Chuck220-00283 Chuck220-00290 Chuck220-00305Emotions display show the personal torture these missions take on people. The human side of these things makes it tough especially when one places their hearts on their sleeves. Sarah may have a job to do, but like Chuck had to live with Sarah in Cole’s room, Sarah has to stay where she was, but Sarah has a history of breaking the rules of a mission. Chuck215-00394 Chuck215-00388Remember this? Chuck109-00478 Chuck109-00487The idea of someone working with an ex or someone with a romantic interest can cause problems on a mission when compromised. This is why Jill is a bigger threat then Hannah or Lou. Jill seemed to knock Sarah out of her game a bit. Chuck220-00305 (1)

It’s a role reversal in a sense because Bryce had the same effect on Chuck. Take a look, it’s no secret on how the Andersons acted around Chuck. Chuck203-00160 Chuck203-00163 Chuck203-00204 (1) Chuck203-00205A fake ring and all, but still sparks a bout of jealousy from Chuck. The same can be said for Sarah. The idea Jill was wearing a ring even if it’s fake seemed to rattle Sarah’s cage. The problem though was Sarah also wore a fake ring, but seemed reluctant to take her’s off despite taking Chuck’s away. Chuck213-01236 Chuck213-01238 Chuck213-01091 Chuck213-01096

The balance of fake vs real comes into play even for Larkin.  Bryce was cherishing the moment of spending time with Sarah again. However, Sarah put a stop to that idea. It seems like Sarah wanted to control every aspect of every thing.

She wanted her cake and eat it too. The other thing to consider was the reality of Sarah moving on from Larkin. You can get that sense with her reaction to him being with her when she opens the door for Chuck (break up). Chuck203-00049 Chuck203-00053Sarah could never possibly understand Chuck’s problems with an ex being with her especially with the person who sent him the Intersect is the ex.

Jill’s presence would provide Sarah’s turn in dealing with a resurfacing ex. The difference between Jill and Bryce would be Jill actually caring about Chuck despite being Fulcrum.

I digressed back to FIrst Kill. Bernie shows up and was startled by the news of Jill being in the house. This means Fulcrum didn’t know Jill was out. This always means Bernie senses something was up.

Chuck220-00328 Chuck220-00335 Chuck220-00337 Chuck220-00340Bernie immediately questions the whereabouts of one Jill Roberts. The question was asked as if he knew Jill was in the big house. This would mean the man standing next to her was a CIA agent. Sometimes I wonder why writers like to make the good guy as the only smart one in the room. Chuck220-00344Bernie wanted a minute alone with the newly engaged couple, but it wouldn’t be the kind of discussion Jill’s parents were expecting. Jill’s actions while in the presence of Bernie shows you how she viewed the dangers of Fulcrum. She is a bit intimidated with his presence. Chuck’s flash also showed Bartowski how dangerous this man was. Bernie shouldn’t of been taken lightly.Chuck220-00350 Chuck220-00352 Chuck220-00354

Bernie trying to soften the mood, encourages Chuck to call him Bernie. They were family now. The institution of family can be convoluted, which family was Bernie talking about? Could Bernie try to convert Chuck to Fulcrum. Well, Bernie wasn’t given a chance.

Once alone, Chuck tells Bernie about how Jill flipped and was trying to help Bernie, but he wasn’t a willing dance partner. Bernie pulls a weapon on Chuck and Jill. It goes to show you how much one is important to an organization. It’s no different then what happens in the mafia.  Chuck220-00371 Chuck220-00373 Chuck220-00377

What was going to be an interesting conversation between the three, soon would become a chase. Bernie chases after Jill and Chuck all the way to the attic. Chuck alerts Sarah and Casey about their trouble. Team Bartowski show up at the doorstep of Jill’s family house. Sarah playing the role as Chuck’s cousin and Casey was her boyfriend. A very odd pairing indeed. Chuck220-00387 Chuck220-00393 Chuck220-00397Chuck let’s Casey and Sarah know he was on the third floor. Bernie was closing in, but the big guy was huffing and puffing. Jill said they had to go up in order to get out. Bernie finally reaches them, and Jill asked Bernie not to do this.

Chuck was the sound of reason for a minute when he reminded Bernie the whole family would hear the shot. Bernie agreed, and elected to beat them to death with a bat. However, before Bernie can strike them with it. He has a heart attack when lifting the bat. Bernie falls to the floor. Casey and Sarah finally were able to reach Chuck and Jill.

Casey confirms Bernie dead and awarded Chuck with his first official kill. Chuck220-00419 Chuck220-00420 Chuck220-00425Chuck220-00428 Chuck220-00429 Chuck220-00434 Chuck220-00441Casey asked Chuck what his move was. The whole holding face and shielding his crotch. Chuck called it the ” The Morgan.” A move invented during the years when Morgan was getting beaten up by girls.

We can say Jill’s actions were very similar to how she was in Gravitron, but remember Leader never intended to harm Jill. Leader’s plan was to get into Castle. Bernie was going to pull the trigger on Jill for working with the CIA. Chuck208-00475They leave the party with Bernie. They use the excuse of too much of the sauce as Chuck and Casey dragged Bernie’s body out of the house. For Jill, even though it was a facade. The moment of freedom can be great even if it’s for a short while. Chuck220-00453For Chuck, he was trying to put his family back together while taking Jill from hers. A path of lies, secrets and covers makes the job they do that much harder at least to someone like Chuck. Chuck220-00458 Chuck220-00455Chuck220-00461It’s been a long time since Chuck and Sarah had a conversation about trust. A serious one not one staged with protocol nonsense around it. The last one came when Sarah came walking into his bedroom in PredatorChuck217-01198 Chuck217-01199The idea behind trust comes with a two way  street. If one side is only providing the trust, we face the inevitable disaster that Chuck and Sarah will face down the road, but here we have a rather perturbed Chuck. He learns that Jill will be sent back to prison much to Sarah’s delight and Chuck’s frustration.

Jill was the link between Chuck finding his father and losing him for good. Sarah thinking selfishly because of her disdain for Jill Roberts makes Chuck point that out, but Sarah was still not willing to help Chuck keep Jill around. Chuck220-00518 Chuck220-00524 Chuck220-00525The perils of trust comes when both sides are not seeing eye to eye on a issue. It’s clear Sarah does not like Jill’s presence and she would be more thrilled with Roberts gone then side with Chuck, which most of the time Walker does, but it seems when it impacts Sarah personally, she won’t be so willing to help.

Sarah claims there are some people you just can’t trust. Chuck is learning this, and grabs Sarah’s wrist and tells her how he knew that already, and the only person he trusts is her, but Sarah still says no. Chuck220-00529 Chuck220-00531 Chuck220-00535 Chuck220-00541It’s interesting to watch how Chuck and Sarah’s relationship seems at the brink at times and other times seem ready to take a leap forward.

Ironically, Morgan calls about the same problem he was having with Milbarge. Chuck’s little buddy was in a trap between trusting Emmett like Chuck was with Jill, but Chuck said it right. “Sometimes you have to just trust the person,” which was what Chuck was planning on doing with Jill.

Chuck220-00559 Chuck220-00573 Chuck220-00577The reality is we often ask how can a person turn out to be so bad, and I think back to what Jack Bauer said in the first season of 24. The guys he took down, who turned out to be dirty were not bad guys. They just made one bad decision. Jill made one bad decision. She allowed herself to be brainwashed by Fulcrum, and as a result was sent to prison.

Time in prison often changes people, and the more Jill thought the more she was right. The CIA and Fulcrum use their agents for their own gain. The measure of doing what’s right or wrong then become grey because of the assignments given. The agents of both factions are required to follow orders or suffer the consequences.

Both Jill and Sarah have made tough decisions, and the more they hate each other the more we should realize the common ground these two women have. Sarah’s world changed when meeting Chuck. The same can be said for Jill. The common problem was Bryce. All four play a role at some point. It’s why this story was the best story told throughout the series.

Before Chuck left Jill’s cell, she said she knew the CIA was never going to let her go. She asked Chuck please don’t let them change him. It’s funny how Bryce, Jill and Sarah will all plea for Chuck not to change in some capacity.Chuck220-00579 Chuck220-00580What’s amazing about the closing moments of the scene, Jill shows she wishes the ring Chuck gave her was real. Chuck220-00592

The team was preparing the transfer of Jill’s return to prison. When Bernie’s phone goes off. Casey orders Chuck not to answer, but Chuck didn’t listen. He answers as Bernie, and the voice on the other end said they were moving Orion.

Chuck let his team know, and they told Chuck to keep the man on the phone so they could trace it. They did keep the guy on  long enough to trace the call.

Jill instantly knew where the call came from. She said, “I- I know that building. It’s the headquarters for the Strength Leadership Corporation. They run CEO and management training seminars, but really that’s just a front for a FULCRUM recruiting facility.” Team Bartowski wanted to know why they would keep Orion there. The building had holding cells there.”

Jill would ask the team to let her help since she knew the ins and out of the building. Chuck220-00725 Chuck220-00726 Chuck220-00727 Chuck220-00728Normally, you would say Jill was lying, but after her conversation with Chuck a few minutes ago. I think Jill found religion. Jill’s taste of normalcy woke her up, and now was seeking redemption by helping Chuck find his father.

The other awaken moment was Bernie trying to kill her. Jill was willing to help Bartowski now. It’s funny Casey once said having Jill work the mission was a key since she had personal knowledge of Guy. The same can be said when Beckman asked Chuck to use his friendship with Anna to get close to the Triads in Best Friend. There was fine line between being a agent of the agency or for a better term a pawn in the bigger picture. Chuck220-00731 Chuck220-00733 Chuck220-00734Trust will be tested from here on out, and while somethings change others remain the same. Casey and Chuck would enter the building as potential recruits into Fulcrum. Jill and Sarah were quarterbacking from the van. The tension could be cut with a knife between the two ladies. Chuck220-00740Jill gets them passed the front desk, and into the testing area. I guess Jill never knew about the cameras hidden in the monitors because Fulcrum identified who Chuck and Casey really were. Chuck asked Jill what to do next, and she told him to take the test. Casey and Chuck reach the eighth floor, but redirected to the testing room. During the test, there was a funny moment between Chuck and Casey, while taking the test Chuck wouldn’t allow Casey to copy his work. It was quite funny. Chuck220-00750 Chuck220-00752 Chuck220-00756 Chuck220-00758We still see Sarah show signs of edginess in working with Jill. Arms folded across the chest, while snickering with each move Jill was instructing. Sarah clearly has trust issue with this woman. It’s easy to understand why, and it has a lot to do with her attempt in killing Sarah, but it has a lot to do with how Chuck sides with Jill despite the risks.

To be fair, Jill could turn on them. It’s easy to assume since she did it before, but Jill didn’t have any reason to not be truthful. Chuck220-00780Chuck220-00805 Chuck220-00813 Chuck220-00815Chuck220-00821Fulcrum makes their move in detaining Casey and Chuck. The test proctor told Casey he failed his test, and Chuck passed. They were set to escort Casey to a certain death, and Chuck the same but Fulcrum had some questions for Bartowski.

While Casey and Chuck in trouble, this meant the two ladies had to work together in saving their male counterparts. Sarah was reluctant at first, but the voice of reason from Jill left Sarah with no other choice. They had to go in together. Chuck220-00907 Chuck220-00917 Chuck220-00927The two women who Chuck shares a intimate connection with working together, but what seemed like Jill was going to rejoin Fulcrum was more interested in escaping. She bails on Sarah when open fire begins. This was Roberts opening for fleeing. However, when Jill hears Chuck was in trouble. Jill went to help him. It’s clear in this scene Jill isn’t Fulcrum anymore. She may be for herself, but Chuck’s safety was important to her too.  Chuck220-00977

Chuck220-00996 Chuck220-00997It also goes to show you Jill may still care for Bartowski. It’s this moment when Chuck saw that Jill wasn’t the lost lamb from earlier in the season. Jill Roberts and Chuck found the connection they once had, but with that also meant the end of the line. Chuck knew it this time. After finding out they were too late in saving Orion, Chuck didn’t burn Jill instead he let her loose. He also gave her the ring he hoped he would’ve gave her years ago as a source of income.

Jill would ask Chuck if he could trust them?  If there wasn’t feelings why would she ask for him? Jill also let’s Chuck know where Fulcrum were taking his father. Jill said “they are taking him to black rock.” Chuck flashed on the name and knew where it was located. Chuck220-01007 Chuck220-01016Rewinding back to her helping Chuck from falling out the window, Jill still could’ve left, but she went with Chuck to find Orion. She was by Chuck side, and if you ask me that’s major points in my book.

Casey would come to the aide of Sarah, who was pinned down from gunfire. Casey asked where was Jill. Walker said she escaped. Chuck220-01025 Chuck220-01035 Chuck220-01038 Chuck220-01047We will close the Jill portion of the store with this analysis. The difference between Jill and Sarah was the fact Jill never knew Chuck had the Intersect. Thus, the attraction Jill has for Chuck is genuine. We can always say Sarah’s connection was the Intersect and Bryce, but what about Jill?  Roberts never had the inkling of knowing he was the Intersect. We can assume based on her reaction when Chuck told her where Fulcrum’s hideout was in Barstow.

When Chuck decides to let her go. We can see feelings still behind Jill’s eyes despite all the years and what Chuck was lead to believe Jill did tell the truth she wasn’t over Bartowski either. She wanted the same life Sarah wants with Chuck except Jill was a fugitive and needed to go. Chuck220-01061 Chuck220-01069 Chuck220-01071While Chuck did what felt right, the agency thought differently. Jill was Fulcrum. She knew Chuck’s secret as a agent, and it was becoming more and more obvious Chuck was a liability and when Casey suggests dumping Chuck in a hole. Beckman granted the request, which opened the eyes of Sarah.

Chuck220-01132 Chuck220-01134What makes this scene so iconic was the very words I mentioned above. The agents are pawns in the bigger picture. The CIA may be on the right side of the law, but they are just as dirty as Fulcrum. They don’t have connections with people because they can’t.

Battles and wars are won when agents follow orders and it’s not good for them if agents show humanity. Chuck showed humanity towards Jill much like Sarah shows humanity before she came to the Buymore. The relationships one builds also helps see the ugliness we saw here. Chuck was important until he became expendable. When he went against the grain, Sarah sees it now. Sarah sees they would never let Chuck go, and the only one who could protect him would be her.

The agency used the very line that triggered her shift from Agent Walker to Sarah Walker. Beckman said, “Use your connection with Chuck to lure Chuck to captivity.” Sarah became irate with Casey for not saying anything. Chuck220-01152 Chuck220-01153Casey helped her in Marlin, but here was willing to put him in the whole. Casey was following orders as I just mentioned. Sarah was going to do the same thing. The moment would change after two words. Chuck220-01149Her orders were simple. Tell Chuck they intercepted Orion’s transfer and bring him to Castle. Sarah did just that. Chuck220-01166However, Chuck used two words that mattered most to Sarah. Two words that Sarah held dear to her when it came to Chuck.

Chuck: I owe you an apologize…

Sarah: Why?

Chuck: I was beginning to think that i couldn’t trust you anymore, Sarah.
That maybe Jill was right, that the CIA was never gonna let me go, That they would always put their best interest ahead of mine.
But not you.
You’ve always looked out for me, Thank you.

Sarah’s reaction tells the story. First, Sarah was struggling with lying. her eyes indicated how much this was destroying her, but after Sarah heard he was losing his trust in her. Sarah became the hero everyone talked about in Marlin, but only now she followed through with her heart. Chuck220-01166 Chuck220-01165 Chuck220-01172 Chuck220-01186

The idea that the CIA could break them apart was too much and we get the ultimate line from Sarah to this point. A moment that will be iconic amongst Chuckaholics.

Sarah: Take off your watch

Chuck220-01186 Chuck220-01200 Chuck220-01202Chuck does take his watch off, and with Casey looking on from Castle. Sarah dumps the watch into a basket by the door, and they were off. Chuck says “you will go to jail.” Sarah’s I know but don’t care indicates the moment in which Sarah’s feelings for Chuck came to the forefront. The moment when action takes over. Chuck220-01207 Chuck220-01209 Chuck220-01217

Jill saved Chuck’s life from Fulcrum earlier, and Sarah was saving Chuck’s life from the CIA. My have things seem so similar from both of Chuck’s leading women. Jill and Sarah will always be linked together in that regard.

The next episode is a classic one also, but while it’s a very popular amongst the fans because of what it did for Chuck and Sarah’s relationship, but I will explain my theory why Colonel was the beginning of Prague. Why this moment was the start of the end of Chuck as we knew it. Chuck221-01008Remember Chuckaholics is your site, so play, engage but most of all it’s hard to say goodbye because we didn’t……Next up Chuck vs The Colonel.

71 comments

    • Gary,

      I remember when I first started this I used to not stand Jill Roberts, but after The Jill Factor series. I have realized how essential the character is in the make of Chuck and Sarah. The history is tremendous when you take in account the history from 98 until she departs from the series. Jill Robert essential would’ve been the ideal woman for Chuck. Grant it, she ended up working with Fulcrum, but do you think Jill and Chuck would of been together if all of this happened? based on her comment about wishing the ring was real? What did you think of my idea of how much all four characters went through similar situations from a fake ring to fake parties the concept of working with an ex. Did you like this storyline?

  1. Chris, over all I liked your review. I also like Jill and yes her feels for Chuck were genuine because she met him prior to the intersect; it was Chuck’s charming and genuine personality that attracted Jill and so the same happened to Sarah even Lou and Hannah. Granted that Sarah would never had met Chuck if it wasn’t for the intersect but Sarah on her wedding vows puts so eloquently “Chuck you’re a gift that I never dreamt I could want or need and everyday I will show you that you are a gift that I deserve . You make me the best person I hope to be and I want to spend and learn and love the rest of my life with you.” Chuck was the universal returning what Sarah lost as a kid or young adult by making wrong decisions and now through she got to live the life she was meant to have. (until Fedak decided her memories her to be suppressed or loss; however you want to call it).
    Jill definitely a game changer and I hope we get to see her if there is a movie or mini series.

    • Carol,

      I have once asked this question. If there was no Sarah Walker who would be the right woman for Chuck. I always thought Mei Ling or Vivian Volkoff would of been nice for him, but logically speaking Sarah, Hannah Mei Ling and Volkoff would’ve never met him. The only two logical women he could’ve had dated was Jill and Lou. However, I never have liked Lou for Chuck. Jill Roberts was the ideal woman for him, and to be honest do we ever get over our first love. Chuck didn’t but Sarah was able to move on from Larkin. So what does that tell you about the two.

      • Chris although Jill was Chuck’s first love for him it was not for her(Jill that is). She followed orders when Fulcrum told her to breakup with Chuck so I think Chuck eventually realized that in Chuck vs the Gravitron. For Sarah, the same occurred because Bryce wasn’t forthcoming regarding the intersect in fact he told her that he didn’t know who to trust and that included her. If Bryce was Sarah’s first love it was also a one-sided relationship. So finally true love is found by both Chuck and Sarah where their love is reciprocated by their partner. That’s why Chuck, the movie should be done so the happily ever after occurs.

  2. Carol, The first time I heard Sarah’s vows I was blown away. That may be the best couple lines of dialogue in the whole series. I don’t think Jill would have been right for Chuck, simply because if she was tempted by Fulcrum she has a fundamental weakness that makes her a mismatch for Chuck. As Bryce said, Chuck always does what is right, eventually that would have driven a wedge between Chuck and Jill. Going with Fulcrum wasn’t right, it was expedient, not at all the same thing.

    • You are absolutely right. At the end Sarah does try to do what is right and her relationship with Chuck just helped her make better decision. Sarah learns to use her humanity to do what is right without compromising her beliefs. Chuck makes her a better person. Chuck’s her soulmate.

      The fact is Jill and Sarah knew how dangerous the organization and assignments were and the importance of having to pull the trigger sometimes to just keep themselves alive was vital. Even Chuck goodness and the fact that he sought out Jill for help him on finding his father helped Jill change a little. At least she went to help him when she needed to. Even Chuck giving her the ring to support herself while on the run also told her that there is some good in the girl he met at Stanford.

      The best point that Chris made which I liked was the reality check that Sarah got when General Beckman wanted her to take Chuck to the bunker. The government wasn’t interested in helping even an asset that had helped in so many missions; this was a life changing decision for Sarah, a wake call; enough to want to save the asset and his father. This decision to commit treason speaks volume of her, her feelings, and what is right.

      • Carol, One of the things i have grown understand about this series is we know Quinn and Shaw are bad dudes, but is it possible the CIA is a villain too.

        When I am done with Season two rewatch I am going to revisit an old article I once wrote, and I open it to you guys. IS the CIA really no different then Fulcrum or The Ring? They all use lies and manipulation. They use agents until they are no longer useful, and as I wrote in this article. The minute one of them show humanity, the factions balk at them or even reassign them as far away as possible. The lines can become blurry when we only see the CIA as a good faction because they are on the right side of the law, but they use the same tactics Fulcrum uses.

      • I think people like Jill, Sarah, Chuck and even Casey had to sacrifice someone or something in order to avoid disaster in their lives or even more so prison time. The reality is Jill was facing the same issues Chuck and Sarah faced about being compromised.

      • Before Sarah really identified her feelings for Chuck, she was strongly motivated to keep him out of a bunker. Combine that with Chuck’s apology and reaffirmation of trust and she knew what was right. This is a huge moment for her, a full break from her past.

    • Lonny, sometimes when one makes the right decision we often judge the decision based on our interpretation of what is right or wrong, but under the circumstances Chuck was in sometimes the right thing may be wrong to others.

      Chuck felt the need to let Jill go because she held up her end of the bargain. Thus,, why should Chuck turn her in. As i wrote in the piece, Jill isn’t a bad person like we will see with Daniel Shaw or Decker. Jill is a good person who made a bad decision. We all have done that from time to time, but it’s what we do to redeem ourselves.

      I think if under different circumstances when they ran into each other in Chuck vs The Ex. Maybe the sparks fly again and maybe they live on for years to come. The question i have is did a moment wearing an engagement ring shift the balance for Jill or did Jill find religion when Bernie tried to kill her.

      • I find it hilarious that people find a big difference between Jill and Sarah, because Sarah worked for the CIA and Jill worked for Fulcrum. Fulcrum describe themselves as patriots, so, in a sense, they are no different than the CIA. Jill didn’t know they were on the wrong side of the ledger when she joined, and it was suicide to leave. For some reason , we believe that Sarah is a better person than Jill, even though we don’t know if Jill ever killed anyone. From a strictly Biblical perspective, Sarah is the evil one, since “Thou shalt not kill” is kind of a big deal. An evil person working for a (so-called) good organization is better than an inherently good person working for a “bad” organization ??? How does THAT work ??? Jill is worse than Decker ? I agree with Chris that the CIA is just as evil as any other organization, but because it is sanctioned by the US government ( for the people of the US), it gets a free pass on it’s inherent evil. I’m sure that Ellie and Awesome and even Sarah may change their minds about the “goodness” of the CIA if they bunkered, or even assassinated Chuck all in the name of National Security.

        Moral equivalence, my friends. How do you think the family of the four assassinated French diplomats feel about the CIA, and Sarah Walker in particular ? Would they think Jill is a worse person than Sarah ? I doubt it …. so Chuck and Jill would do as well as Sarah and Chuck, since Chuck acts as the redeemer for lost souls….his inherent decency counterbalances the ladies’ moral bankruptcy. It seems to allow them to regain their emotions, but not wallow in the despair of the evil in which they partook ….. voluntarily or accidentally.

      • Gary, and that’s my point. Jill is a good person stuck in a situation like Chuck saw no way out of it. We can’t be blind to the fact that she choice to sign up with Fulcrum, but was she? We know from Fleming Chuck had no choice? Did Fulcrum have the same pretense with her. Her background in biochem certainly makes her attractive to them much like Chuck’s scores in subliminal images were an attractive feature for the CIA, so Gary was Jill in the same trap do you think?

  3. Well done, Gary. So true that because its the CIA or a government sanction mission we tend to justify it even if it is morally wrong. The fact that both Jill and Sarah did not have a moral compass helped both organizations use them. Both did their jobs no question asked and even though that Sarah was an assassin there was something in her heart that started to change. I’m referring to the Chuck vs the baby right before she got Chuck’s assignment as an asset. That’s when I think she realized she was a pawn and I believe that Langston Graham gave her that assignment just to calm her down. He probably thought she would walk. What Graham didn’t count was on Chuck’s goodness. Evil or wickedness saw the light and liked what she saw because there are good people in the world not every one is bad like she was probably trained to believe. Remember both Casey and Sarah were company agents. They believed that everything they did was so all american can live the life they are living (Chuck vs the Undercover Lover). Suddenly, Sarah remembered that she once dreamed of a normal life and Chuck was the path to normalcy.

    • Carol, but Sarah’s normalcy wasn’t the one Chuck was brought up on. Remember she lived in a broken home much like Chuck did, but Chuck’s parents were spies so they were out and about. Sarah’s mom and dad split because of the chosen career of Jack.

      Sarah’s idea of normalcy when meeting Chuck’s was actually Chuck’s normalcy. So, Sarah’s normalcy or life she wanted was the she was living with Chuck. It’s funny she said “All of my friends were his friends.” when she talked about Bryce in the pilot, but didn’t she do the same with Chuck? Sarah’s friends were Carina and Zondra two assassins like her not ideal friends you would make on day to day existence.

      Even Orion warmed her as he was the ideal father she was looking for but again we are talking semantics because Orion was a spy and created a dangerous weapon much like conning can be a dangerous weapon in it’s own right.

    • Normal is a qualitative term, not a quantitive one, so “normal” means different things to different people, depending on your perspective. To most of us, the life that Sarah chooses with Chuck would be anything but normal, but I’m pretty sure that Chris’ life with his wife and your life, Carol, are very different than the “normal”life that I live. This is where you can get really hung up, Chris ….try not to peg “normal”. Any life where her mark’s life or her life weren’t hanging in the balance would be a vast improvement.

      I don’t really buy into this premise that Sarah and Chuck weren’t meant to be together because they were only together due to the Intersect. Life is full of serendipity, and we don’t know who we’ll meet along life’s highway. The main thing is to take advantage of the people that come along and change our lives for the better. Jill chose NOT to put herself in harm’s way to stay close to Chuck. Although Sarah resisted at first, she put it all on the line a number of times to keep Chuck in her life. Chuck actually did the same thing so it was pretty evident that the DEPTH of their love for each other is why they ended up together. When you risk your life for someone…pure altruism, then you know they’re the ONE !!

      • Gary, loved your response. So true indeed. Remember when Chuck wanted to get Sarah a house she mentioned how she would dream of the house or families that lived in a house like Leave it Beaver so once in her youthful she desired what she considered normalcy and Chuck thanks to Ellie raising him (his words) not mine was a glimpse of a dream that Sarah once had and now with Chuck was achievable.

  4. I don’t think Shaw was a bad person in the way Decker or even Roark were. He allowed himself to be consumed by his grief and desire for revenge. It’s possible his emotions overwhelmed him because he kept them suppressed for so long. I don’t think Jill was a bad person, just a weak one. If she had stayed with Chuck, I think his strong beliefs would have frustrated her and eventually split them. Sarah’s moral compass was suppressed by her father and by Graham for their own purposes. Her Dad taught her there are 2 types of people in the world, marks and grifters. Grifters were smart, marks were dumb and gullible. The CIA did nothing to change this view. Her goal was to be the best agent in the Agency, and she was. She didn’t know people like Chuck and Ellie existed until she came to Burbank. Even then it took a little time before she realized Chuck wasn’t putting on an act. No matter what the four Frenchmen actually were, she truly believes they were killers and it was a them or me situation. Her conscience had been bothering her for some time, and it was fully awakened by the “Baby” incident. She already possesses a strength that I think Jill lacks, that’s why Chuck is able to redeem her. He directs her strength. It’s Sarah who says I don’t want to go back to the CIA, not Chuck.

    I have found That the military and paramilitary organizations like the CIA really believe in winning by any means necessary, the end justifies the means, we need to adopt the enemy’s tactics to beat them. The danger is you can lose the distinction between yourself and your enemy. In that respect the CIA is evil. That’s why there is supposed to be oversight by more detached persons like Senators, Representatives and the President, though it doesn’t always work the way it should.

    • I’m not sure Jill was any weaker than Sarah …they got into their respective organizations and couldn’t find a way out. I still don’t see what makes Jill a weaker person than Sarah, since Sarah allowed herself to be manipulated into performing the absolutely most heinous act of humanity, while Jill didn’t allow herself to be pushed that far. Sure, Sarah had an awakening with the Baby, but Jill’s awakening happened much earlier after her recruitment ….she knew she was into something too deep, and she knew there was no way out. She also realized that all the organizations were essentially the same. So Jill was able to override her handler’s manipulations which would have her believe she was doing something for the greater good…. she understood that what she was doing was wrong, but it was a matter of survival. It took Sarah a lot longer to figure that out, and a lot longer to do something about it So I don’t think that Jill would have maintained any “evil” intent if she was able to break free of Fulcrum….she didn’t seem to share the goals of the organization in the first place.

  5. I would also say that Sarah and Jill are almost the same. But there is also one important difference: Jill just let it happen. She never went against fulcrum (that is until she was captured by the CIA, and then it didn’t matter anyway). I assume Jill didn’t want to betray Chuck but she did it anyway due to orders. Sarah at least tried to fight the CIA orders as much as possible. I don’t think Jill would have ever commited treason for Chuck.

    • Yeah….but look at “Old Sarah” …. before she met Chuck, before the Baby …… She is EXACTLY like Jill !! (Since Sarah at the end of Season 5 is a reincarnation of that Sarah)….. Quinn blows up a CIA facility and Sarah still can’t modify her “order” to kill Chuck. …… she was very weak. And I’m not sure what Jill would do if she met her very own Chuck. She certainly changed when push came to shove and Chuck really needed her. She had her chance to escape and gave it up to help Chuck. Don’t know about treason, but that was certainly quite a sacrifice…..

    • Disagree Michael,

      because the show never digs into Jill Roberts, we can only speculate on or who Jill Roberts is. When we first meet Sarah she seemed like a robot. A company girl for sure. If graham told her to kill Chuck rather then probe him. I think she would of done it, but when Jill runs into Chuck she seemed very happy including saying she wished things were different between them. Jill brought the subject up not Chuck. She also said outside the club how the people she was working with didn’t or shouldn’t be trusted.

      Does this mean Jill was on the fence with Fulcrum maybe so. But Jill and Sarah both were willing to do what they were ordered to do. I also don’t think Jill just let it happen and more so as Sarah did. Jill’s plea with Chuck to just do what he says when Leader was taking over Castle indicates as a warning to Chuck about what Leader could do.

  6. Gary,
    I think you get this s05 ‘old sarah’ wrong. she didn’t blow up the cia facility although she was ordered to do so (there were surely some feelings involved). when she realized that chuck tricked her in order to steal/exchange the glasses, she had to assume that chuck really was the bad guy like quinn told her. so she had to follow the orders.
    jill on the other hand betrayed chuck twice (stanford & vs graviton) although she had strong feelings for him.

    about the saving chuck thing in vs first kill: sure she saved him and didn’t just escape. It wasn’t mentioned yet but she was with sarah on the 1st floor when the shooting began and she went up to chuck on the 15th floor, so saving him was clearly her main intention (because it would be an idiot plan to go through all the building to escape). But i think this was more about cleaning up her mess (her first step to redemption) because she brought chuck into this mess. she sent him in there with kind of the promise to keep him save.

    • She knew blowing up the facility was wrong …. CIA agents don’t kill their own people without a very good reason. Yet, when Quinn blew it up, she still couldn’t tweak to the fact that something was wrong with the mission. She couldn’t even put 2 and 2 together with the fact that Morgan lost his memories due to downloading the Intersect …she lost her memories and was told to lie about having the Intersect . If she was in the least bit intelligent, she should have seen right through Quinn’s plan, but she couldn’t see anything but the mission that was given to her. Yes, she felt that Chuck was a bad guy, but what about Casey ? Not once did she try to figure out his role in this. Her weakness was that she couldn’t make any judgements on her own …. in her youth, it was her father, then it was Graham, then it was Bryce, then it was Shaw. She was easily manipulated by men all her life, and she couldn’t figure out a way to step it up and take control of her life. In a way, she needed to be manipulated by Chuck as well. She didn’t know how to act on her own without a man showing her the way…..and usually she did exactly what they told her to do.

      • Ouch! Gary. Those are hard words. I didn’t that she lacked intelligence but decided to work with Quinn simply because she had to follow orders because Graham and Bryce were dead. However, you do see some doubt in her as to what Quinn is up to. You have to give her credit for punching him out when Quinn blows the govt facility. Also remember she was brainwashed so Quinn can manipulate easily. Once the truth comes out she reverts to the cold assassin she was trained to be; this why I think the so-called “magical kiss” could not restore her memories as others think. Chuck would need to charm his way into her life, regain her trust and help lower the defensive walls that she had prior to meeting Chuck.

      • Guys, I been reading everyone’s comments and while the weekend I spend most of it at The Atria (my job) washing dishes for a assistant home living

        It doesn’t mean i am not paying attention. with that said,

        I think as we were taught during our lifespan on the good vs evil aspect of things. Police are good Organized Crime bad.

        We are taught these things at a young age and brainwashed on the police can do no wrong despite using the same tactics that the bad guy would use. However, History has proven the tougher the case the more likely cops will use tactics like what Jill and Sarah do for a living.

        I agree with Gary that maybe we see the Ring, Fulcrum, Volkoff Industries and even Decker as the bad ones, and turn a blind eye to what The CIA/NSA do because as I wrote they operate on the right side of the law, but are they really?

        They use people like Jill, Casey, Orion even Hartley was a victim to the games these entities play. Mary and Stephen had to miss out on their children upbringing. Is it fair? no, but while there are Jack Bauers and John Caseys of the world. We need people like them to serve and protect. We need them to sacrifice they’re lives for the greater good.

        The problem is CIA and Fulcrum use Colleges and manipulation as way to recruit and then when the people become useless they become expendable. It’s a vicious cycle. I watched Colonel for rewatch purposes and was saddened on how a life like Orion becomes apart of colleratel damage just so the CIA can protect their interests. Jill learned this early and unfortunately like Chuck was never going to be let go. They know too much and the result is a pawn in the game of spymasters.

        Orion said the business was dirty and thats what it is. Jill said in Fat Lady she cared for Chuck and I believe her. Jill did and loved Chuck, but like Sarah couldn’t act on it. It must be sad that these people can’t do these things. but what’s amazing is even Carina found a connection with Morgan. cause she tried to get Morgan back in Cat Squad. I have come to think maybe the CIA is the real bad guys of the series.

      • Chris, just like Jill said the CIA and Fulcrum all the same. The fact is that these government agencies make decisions without any emotions so depending on the leader everyone is expendable for the greater good. If you watch Madam Secretary that just happened burning an asset for the greater good to help keep our precious freedom. It is sad but true.

      • Yes, and until you can see that you won’t see that Jill isn’t an evil person. She just made the wrong choice. A choice she had to live with for the rest of her life. The same decision Sarah had to understand and cope with once she allowed herself to be recruited by Graham.

        The interesting thing about this all neither Sarah or Jill had strong feelings for Bryce and yet Bryce both lead them to a meeting with Chuck. So, does this mean Bryce lost two women to Chuck? Not bad Mr. Bartowski……

      • indeed! Good for Chuck. Hey, I liked Jill but at the end of day while in Stanford she did drop Chuck because she was told to verifying that although she liked Chuck for her it was not her first love. Remember that Bryce introduced Jill to Chuck which makes you think if they had been an item before she became Chuck’s girlfriend. The fact is that Sarah fell for Chuck and Chuck was the perfect mate for her; they compliment each other.

      • That’s my point, Carol. People are calling Jill weak because she didn’t get out of Fulcrum. Sarah was just as weak, if not weaker. It’s like she checked her intelligence at the door when on assignment ….she couldn’t see any type of abnormality within the mission because she was so focussed on the outcome. French diplomats ( aren’t the French allies of the US ????), Ellie ……..she couldn’t even see the evil in her actions because she needed to complete that mission. Perhaps lack of intelligence is the wrong term, but turning off your emotions shouldn’t result in the inability to question the “Why” of your mission, especially when there is an event that makes no sense. It wasn’t until the baby that she questioned it, and that lead to her turnaround. But she was still at the mercy of the men around her. Who knows why….maybe because she needed to feel loved in spite of her lack of humanity. But that was her weakness….and even though she met Chuck, she still couldn’t imagine removing herself from the CIA. That pretty well was Jill’s situation…. so I don’t know why one is worse (weaker) than the other

      • Gary, that what I like about the Chuck, the tv series. The spies weren’t perfect like a James Bond movies and sometimes questioning the mission without completely violating procedures and policies can bring about a better result. Think about it the fact that Chuck refused to kill some of the baddies I sure if the CIA was remotely really in the program haha would provide additional intel for the CIA to have more victories.
        Chuck and his emotional compass with the intersect made the CIA adapt to Chuck’s decision making.

      • Yea, but again even though the Intersect gave him intel. The man still has to carry the action out. The only time Chuck lost himself was when he took the pill in Tic Tac, but Sarah came in time before Chuck took the Ring Operative’s life. I wonder if Chuck would have killed that guy if it wasn’t for Walker

      • Gary, The reason it was hard for Sarah to separate herself from the CIA was because that was her internal family. She spent a great portion of her life under that umbrella so it’s safe to say the CIA was her family. It’s all she knew.

        Plus if you look at Jill and Chuck’s upbringing they both had stability with a great family balance. Grant, it Stephen and Mary were gone, but Ellie still filled the role of teaching right and wrong.

        It’s better scenario than say Jack Burton or Langston as a role model. It kept Chuck and Jill grounded when you have a family like Jill and Chuck had.

  7. Jill had a normal family…she just thought she was recruited into a legitimate organization within the government, but got trapped. As much as Ellie provided a role model for Chuck ,remember…Chuck blamed himself for his mother leaving….. That’s pretty deep seated guilt right there. And he was furious with his father for abandoning them. I don’t care how good a sibling is, they will NEVER replace the guidance of a mother and father…..especially a father. We have a lot of trouble in the world right now due to absentee fathers. ( yes ….some kids are better off without a father, but Chuck certainly needed a positive male role model in his life). If Sarah wanted, she could have had an excellent role model in her mother. But that speaks to her weakness ….she needed that male in her life, no matter how poor his influence was.

    • Gary, You are right about Chuck’s parents, but who is better role model Ellie and Morgan or Graham and Jack Burton. We both can agree Sarah’s mother would be the ideal parent for her, but she elected to follow the footsteps of her father. I chalk it up to him never being home. A parent missing from the picture tends to make a child want that person more. I see it with Olivia when one of use is gone for a long period of time. The child starts to call out for the parent. Grant it, we come back from work. However, Sarah’s connection with her father can’t be out weighed.

      it’s like a mafia boss’s son being sheltered from the business but it’s only a matter of time before the son or daughter follows into that line of work. I am not saying thats the case for all, but most of the time it’s the path they follow.

      We both agree on Jill’s make up so we will leave it at that.

      • When Sarah was young, she probably chose to go with her father because he was more fun and exciting. Mom was all “do your homework, do your chores” and so on ; Dad was “hey fall down in front of this truck and we’ll go get ice cream”. Once she left her mom, she felt she couldn’t go back. Kids will always choose the fun parent.

        Jill is weak because, although she had several opportunities to clue Chuck into what Leader was up to, she continued with the plan to take over Castle, even seducing Chuck in Castle to release Leader. Sarah on the other hand is ready to take Chuck away from Longshore at gunpoint only a few months after meeting him and without the advantage of history that Jill had. Jill resisted change, Sarah embraced it.

        As far as Sarah at the end, the CIA is a paramilitary organization. If you’re a marine and the Sergeant says shoot that guy, you don’t say “why?”. You do it. The CIA is the same way. Quinn took her back before “Baby” when she was “Wildcard” the enforcer. The way she took out the guys at the table in “Baby” shows that she didn’t question her orders, like any good soldier she assumed the higher ups had a good reason to issue an order, her job was to follow it. It was discovering that the package was in fact an infant, and that it would be killed or dumped into foster care, possibly at the mercy of other baddies, that was her “aha” moment. She had been used by a rogue handler to kill a number of people and threaten a baby and it woke her up to what she was really doing by blindly following orders. She thought all people were either users or marks. Without that “aha” moment, she’s still just a good soldier. Someone like Chuck who was kind, gentle and altruistic was outside her reality. Given the opportunity, she embraced the new possibilities quickly. Jill, even with her history with Chuck and presumably greater knowledge of him, did not. She just continued to use him.

      • Sarah used Chuck just the same even manipulated Chuck at times. We can call it love, but really was it? or was it based on circumstances. They both made it impossible for each other to see other people.

        They took their issues on missions that would end up making the mission that more dangerous. I used to look at Sarah as a never could do wrong, but I see Sarah has her own way of taking advantage of Chuck.

        Chuck isn’t innocent especially when he puts Sarah on the spot when it comes to being a briefing with Beckman. If you say Jill is weak because of what she did to Chuck in Gravitron and at Stanford than Bryce was just as bad because Bryce sent Chuck the Intersect the program in which his father told him he didn’t want Chuck apart of. So in a way the whole thing comes full circle.

      • Chris, Sarah ad Casey were told to handle the asset, the fact was that Chuck was able to work with Sarah better than with Casey.S1E2 Chuck was able to see that Sarah understood him better and was prettier. Remember the helicopter. One thing you have to admire about Sarah that she studied the asset so well that she knew Chuck’s facial expression so well that it made it much easier for her to know how to get him to do the work the government wanted him to do. Manipulation, yes because there were situation that they just could not wait for Chuck to process. Chuck always had a choice and after both Sarah and Casey explained the mission it gave him time to process. In S3E12 Chuck vs the American Hero, when Chuck was going to give up being a spy, Beckman said that she was aware that he needed his hands to be held and time to process. I guess that was on the reports that written by both Casey and Sarah Since Chuck liked to talk something I think he learned from Ellie; I guess talking it out help the Bartowski process better. Casey states varies times in the series thtat Chuck likes to talk something to death (S4E3). It was this quality that helped Sarah genuinely know Chuck. She was there for Chuck listening and learning about him even more; so what started as an assignment turn to something more than that a relationship than a friendship which turned into love. The time they spent with each other because of the missions and because she had to protect was the reason they fell in love. They got to know each other.

      • You really can’t use manipulation as a sign of good or bad, weak or strong. Humans manipulate each other on a daily basis. It’s part of our character. All Jill had to do to start redeeming herself was stay in the lie detector chair. She chose to seduce Chuck so that she could release Leader. You can even argue that Fulcrum is not evil. As far as I can tell, they are an extreme right wing group that feels the end justifies the means. If you know a terrorist is hiding in a group, shoot them all. You get the terrorist and the others are “acceptable civilian casualties”. When Sarah is faced with choosing Chuck or the CIA she almost always chooses Chuck. As she falls more deeply for him it becomes that she always chooses Chuck. And again, Sarah didn’t kill French Diplomats, she killed assassins disguised as French Diplomats. She believed it was kill or be killed. As for Bryce, he was in a pretty impossible situation. He didn’t know who to trust, he could either destroy all of the CIA/NSA intel on the intersect or send it somewhere he believed safe. He chose Chuck because Chuck could accept the data without losing his mind, and Chuck always did the right thing. And of course, if he doesn’t send it to Chuck, there’s no show! 🙂

      • Chris ….it’s not a contest… Sarah chose to go with her father and leave her life with her mother…probably as a teenager. Obviously she would have spent time with her mom until then. She also spent time with her grandmother. To say she didn’t know right from wrong would be a mistake…she probably did at one point, but her father would have really blurred those lines. Chuck had absolutely no choice between parents….they left. He was luck to have Ellie, but just because he had Ellie doesn’t mean his upbringing was “normal”….he was traumatized by his parents leaving. He had a better role model in Ellie than Sarah had in Jack, but stop trying to say Chuck’s upbringing was stable and normal, just because it was different than Sarah’s. They both had extremely challenging childhoods brought on by absentee parents.

      • Gary, I would also say there is a lot wrong with Sarah. But still I would consider Jill weaker. Jill claimed that she was unhappy being with Fulcrum but she didn’t do anything about it. She could have turned herself in to the CIA anytime for witness protection.
        Sarah on the other hand loved being a spy and being with the CIA doing what she believed is working for the greater good.

      • Michael and Lonny, I don’t think you guys understand what it means to be working with an organization like Fulcrum or the CIA. Do you guys really think the CIA was going to let Walker just walk or Fulcrum let Jill walk. They both knew too much so the likely hood would be eliminating the two. If Beckman had no problem ordering a hit on Chuck Bartowski who had secrets in his head then why would they let Jill seek help from the CIA.

        Mauser let you in on that when they said the higher the rank the more important that agent becomes. Jill was working the intersect case. This is important because this means she would likely be killed.

        I think as the seasons went on the tougher the baddies became, but let me remind you Fulcrum was a dangerous crew. The likes of Tommy who was sent into clean up operations when things became mucky. Jill was stuck in a group that would killer her. They tried to kill Busgang once he talked to Casey and Sarah.

        Alexis White a bad ass woman and don’t forget the Fulcrum agent who took Jill hostage also was a tough agent. These agents played important roles in they may be small, but offer dangers that no matter what the CIA or NSA did with Jill mostly like Jill could be reached.

        Don’t forget guys and gal, Fulcrum was one layer of the Ring. The same group that placed a Operative on Casey’s team to kill Roark. I find it interesting we are calling Jill weak, but Sarah’s job is also dangerous but Srah’s isn’t weak to tell her bosses she wants to have a relationship with her asset.

        SArah’s balancing act between trying to keep her post while learning to reenter civilian life is a testiment to her courage but please guys she had opportunities to change herself, but kept being a company woman.

        The chosen profession makes people give up their minds, and lives for the greater good, and we shouldn’t call them weak as result.

      • If we are going to call Jill weak then Casey was weak too because he gave up a life with Alex if he chosen to not join Keller, but he followed what he thought was right. I think we still can’t look past the good and evil aspect of the groups. We still believe because the CIA says it’s right then its right, but from a humanity perspective. We can say Chuck is the hero because he changes these people. It’s why Sarah and Jill’s story is fun to watch because these two women sacrificed a lot and yet we sit here and say. Man Jill’s weak or Shaw’s a traitor because he chose to revenge his wife’s death. The human side of things makes people say. Oh, you can’t sleep with marks because morally it’s wrong, but if Jill and Sarah are in the middle of trying to get information and the only way was to do the dirty deed than they do what they have too.

        Was Frost weak for staying by Hartley’s side for 20 years? Mary was looking out for Hartley and did a bad job, but it’s not her fault. She had a family to protect. Is Mary Weak too? Weak is very strong in the sense you guys are framing it as. Is Orion weak for realizing the dangers of the Intersect and chose to protect his family rather then face the music? Weak I don’t think is the right word to use to be honest.

  8. All this piece was trying to do was to paint the picture of how important Jill Roberts was to the story, and there was a question posted on Facebook about the biggest threat to Sarah, and to be honest as much as Lou and Hannah show there own means in threatening Sarah, but if you want a complete package in a threat then there is only one and that would be Jill.

    The role Jill plays comes with the fact she has history with Chuck much like Bryce Larkin has with Sarah. The balancing act in Chuck and Sarah comes with dealing with a powerful ex. An ex that not only has a personal connection, but a professional one at that. Jill does what Sarah does. i know an argument can be made with Hannah working a mission in the Mask, but that’s not the same as Jill helping with puzzles and directly involve in breaking into Fulcrum. Jill also manage to knock Sarah off her game a bit, which made Sarah make rushed decisions or even become impulsive with things like not listening to Jill say Guy left puzzles to even open emails.

    But when you are threatened like Chuck was with Bryce you tend not to think straight especially when feelings are real. As i wrote this was one of my favorite storylines.

    • Lonny…I don’t think self-preservation is a weakness. Jill was not a soldier like Sarah ….Jill was forced to use Chuck, but she was doing what she could to keep both herself and Chuck alive in the process ….. it’s pretty harsh to call that a weakness. As far as Sarah, she did NOT embrace the opportunity Chuck presented immediately, and she used Chuck like a yo-yo. When she wanted to feel good about herself, she pulled him close, but when she wanted to return to the company girl, she pushed him away. You can say that’s a fundamental weakness in itself. If you are just comparing who would (eventually ) throw down their life for Chuck, it would have to be Sarah, but I don’t think you can really judge it as a strength / weakness thing. Chuck would do the same for Sarah ( quite often )….I think that’s just true love.

      Carol… what’s important about what you wrote was the fact that Chuck had to talk everything out ….that’s how he processed things. At times, it was annoying that he would babble on trying to make sense of certain situations and make sense of his generally unrequited feelings for Sarah. But that’s what makes Prague so frustrating…..Chuck DIDN’T go through his process there, which made absolutely no sense. That wasn’t the Chuck we had come to know…..

      • I don’t see how self preservation comes into plat. She is strapped to a chair in a secure CIA facility, Leader is in additionally secure holding cell some distance away. If she really wants to exit Fulcrum and redeem herself when will she have a better opportunity? Sarah is ready to take Chuck by force from Longshore at the rnd of Season 1 when she’s only known Chuck a few months, Jill has known Chuck for years. I know you’re not a Sarah fan, but to say Sarah and Jill are the same is really stretching it.

      • Yes, but Lonny it took 12 Episodes 4 Sarah to come 2 that point I don’t think Saeah would of mind in helicopter when she told him she would be gone when dr. ZARNOW could take the secrets out.

      • Jill wasn’t weak but lets say not a patriot. Having the opportunity to leave, she did not even consider. She did compare Fulcrum to the CIA so she was aware of her choice.

      • Gary, Absolutely and it goes to show that when he doesn’t talk something through his process has glitches look at when his mom removed the intersect temporary from him. One point I need to mention that Sarah knew that every word and every action that she and the asset were involved in was being recorded and monitored. She made it very clear that a handler can not have a relationship with the asset; the fact that she went to bat for Chuck regarding Orion brought the 49B. So what does Beckman show Chuck but certain key conversations that Sarah and him had had so if Sarah wanted to be with Chuck and not be re-assigned, fired, or transferred away from him she had to walk a fine line. Thank God Chuck spoke up, Casey backed him up and Beckman realized that Chuck works better or is willing to cooperate better with Sarah then someone who is just a soldier and does not care for his safety.
        Lonny,regarding Jill as weak I disagree. I just think that she knew she could not leave Fulcrum even if she wanted to so she just continued doing her job with Fulcrum no matter if she had to manipulate and deceive Chuck. Remember that once she told uncle Bernie that she was helping the CIA;what was the first thing he did was pull a gun on her and Chuck with the intention of killing them. Regarding Walker and the CIA I also agree; it wasn’t going to be easy to leave but possible. (since the Turners did S3E15).

  9. I’m not saying they are the same, I’m questioning why Jill is “weak”. She is in a para-military organization and she is carrying out orders. She is not safe in the custody of the CIA, as we can see from the number of CIA agents killed right in CIA HQ. This was the plan, and in order to save her life, she followed through. Why is that different than after the baby ??? Sarah would have also had the opportunity to “get out”, but decided to stay. I’m with Chris on this….I really like Sarah, but some people look at her as being perfect, and I think that ruins the depth of her character, as well as Yvonne’s portrayal of her.

    • Never thought Sarah was perfect. Always thought she was the most interesting character on the show. Jill is weak because she makes no attempt at redemption until she’s had a taste of prison life. And yes she was still in danger in Castle, but it is still her best opportunity to get out. And all she has to do is…NOTHING. Sarah risked her life in”Baby” to do the right thing, save the baby. Jill failed to risk her life to do the right thing, and betrayed Chuck AGAIN. Jill is weak.

    • Gary, I use to think the same way as most of these people about Sarah, but like Casey is a unsavory dude, so is Sarah. Sarah proves she can pull the trigger unlike Chuck and we still have no evidence Jill ever killed anyone, but since she was ready to kill Sarah we can assume from that she may have. I mean id we are going to say Sarah and Shaw hooked up by simply sharing desert or read their body language then we are missing that point in Gravitron, but then we also miss Jill asking Chuck to run with her at the end of Gravitron.

      I think Sarah was wrong in Baby going off on her own without telling her husband why she was going to face her former handler. Sarah is damaged but damaged at her own expense.

      • Chris….. it’s tough to separate Sarah / Yvonne, so most guys are all too willing to blame everything on Chuck and nothing on Sarah, mostly because they’re in love with Yvonne.

        We don’t know if Jill killed anyone for sure, just like Chuck, but they were trained to pull the trigger if necessary. I don’t think Jill worked as an assassin, so killing wouldn’t come easy to her. If we go by facial expressions, it seemed Jill was quite bothered by letting Chuck down, but the plan was to infiltrate Castle and get the intel from the computer. Jill staying put and not following through on her orders was suicide …. Fulcrum had agents throughout the CIA and Jill would know that…she was trapped in Fulcrum and her only way out was death or imprisonment, with imprisonment probably leading to death at some point. When she actually did have a chance to escape, she didn’t take it, instead going up to save Chuck. And this was with knowing that Chuck would never be hers…..

        Of course, after Baby, Sarah could have decided enough was enough, but I think she felt slightly trapped as well. My feeling is that Sarah’s was the story of redemption ( to go along with Chuck’s hero journey ), but if everyone sees her as perfect, then what does she need to redeem? Was the only thing missing from her life, a good man ? I don’t see it that way, but if that’s the story others see, that’s the way it is.

        Oh, and I think Yvonne is pretty close to perfect !! 😉

  10. So far, you have not found anything wrong with Sarah at all. All her assassinations were without question, her treatment of Chuck was fine, she was the perfect soldier…she had no weak moments with other men …. staying with the CIA when Chuck asked her to go away with him was the right thing to do…..

    So, at the end, she really didn’t need to remember anything, because the only thing that mattered was having a nice boyfriend / husband. Whether she wanted him or not, Chuck was hers……it seems that is the story of Sarah you are pushing. She was perfect, but needed a good guy in her life.

  11. Sarah is not perfect. She is the product of her upbringing. Her Dad taught her that you either take or get taken. The CIA limited her world to primarily Agents who take and marks who get taken. Casey says she was Graham’s “Wildcard Enforcer”. That almost certainly means she was his chief assassin, especially for moles and turncoats. She has a bit of an anger management problem and she can certainly hold a grudge. Chuck is really her first exposure since childhood to someone who does something just because he thinks it’s the right thing to do. She had forgotten or maybe never believed people like him existed. That’s why she is so impressed by the way he treats the Ballerina, she’s not used to that kind of behavior. “Baby” opened her eyes to how much of her humanity she had lost. But without Chuck to show her his kindness, gentleness and humanity she might have just gone on her way as before, even if she hated herself and what she was doing. Jill was apparently raised in a decent family with all the advantages neither Chuck nor Sarah had. Yet she went with Fulcrum and betrayed Chuck. If Jill is too afraid of Fulcrum to leave at the end of “Gravitron” why is she so ready and willing to take the diamond and run here? I maintain it’s because she’s essentially a weak person.

    • Lonny, I agree with your assessment of Sarah, but I do not think Jill was a weak person that fact that she willing to kill Sarah is the answer. I’m sure Fulcrum would not have recruited her and have her be looking for Bryce if they considered her weak. The fact that she knew her way around the Fulcrum headquarters also reveals her knowledge and participation in the Fulcrum organization (S2E20). Prison time after Chuck vs Gravitron plus Chuck sincere talk to her before she deceived him into releasing her gave a certain perspective as to what she had missed and was missing because of her choices. Chuck helped her see that and that is one of the reason she probably decided to help him in Chuck vs the First Kill. With PHD in Biomedical Engineering and was well aware as to her boss Guy LaFleur info.

    • Jill didn’t enter into her relationship with Fulcrum knowing it was an “evil”organization …she went for leadership training and only found out what they were up to once deep into the organization. At the end of Gravitron, her choice was to go to jail, or to be killed. If she was jailed by the CIA AND betrayed Fulcrum, they’d get her in prison. If she was caught carrying out her Fulcrum assignment, the CIA may have tried to protect her for information purposes, but she’d still be in a lot of danger in jail. Then, there was always the chance that Fulcrum got what it wanted from Castle, and she escaped. Not a lot of great choices there, but that’s what it came down to.

      It seemed from Jill’s background that she wasn’t really doing a lot of the heavy spy work while with Fulcrum. Sh e seemed to be doing her microbiology, working with Lafleur gathering intel on bioweapons, etc. Perhaps she didn’t realize how nasty Fulcrum was ( much like Sarah didn’t know how nasty the CIA was). You yourself said Sarah probably would have continued doing what she had always done if Chuck hadn’t come along. So, how is that not terribly weak? I mean, that’s exactly the mindset that Jill would have had with Fulcrum….. I’ll just keep doing what I’m doing, even if I hate myself for doing it. ( your line)

      I think Chuck also showed Jill the light of day, so she finally worked up the courage to run and get away from that life. I mean, if SHE stayed, I don’t think she was going to be too safe in prison. Chuck seemed to have a positive influence on a lot of people !! He sort of exemplified the ” greater good” !!

      • “Chuck seemed to have a positive influence on a lot of people !! He sort of exemplified the ” greater good” !!”

        This we can totally agree on. I think his family plays a great part in this for Sarah as well. She sees that he is not an anomaly, That his whole family have similar attitudes anf values. She also sees that they depend on each other in contrast to the loner, self sufficient spy life.

        I still believe Sarah is a stronger character than Jill. Sarah takes steps to change her life into what she wants it to be. It’s a struggle for her, it goes against everything she has done before. Jill avoids change until it’s forced on her. Even after “First Kill” she will be running the rest of her life.

  12. Seeing that it took Sarah 2 1/2 years to finally take the proper steps to change her life into what she wants it to be, I wouldn’t call it a strength. Stronger than Jill ?? Perhaps …..but remember, Sarah also wanted to go on the run for the rest of her life…. good thing Chuck realized that running was not what Sarah really wanted to do. He paid for it big time, though. Sarah almost let the most important person in her life, slip through her hands. Sarah had some tremendous strengths, but some glaring weaknesses as well. I think that’s why Chuck and Sarah made a great couple….they complemented each others strengths and weaknesses….

    • Gary,

      Again, we are talking about people’s interpretation of the character. Yvonne made the character loveable and the truth is if we saw Sarah how she was pre Baby like she was in 5/12 maybe the fans see how unsavory Sarah is. She only realizes she doesn’t want to be a spy in S5 when she thought the newspaper guy was a spy closing in on her, but deep down I don’t think Chuck and Sarah would ever be free from the NSA/CIA. It’s hard to fathom when the two are special agents needed for special assignments like The Ring. What do you think?

  13. Ok, It maybe took Sarah a long time. But she was recruited when she was 16. Since spies should not have feeling this is technically when her emotional develpment stopped. I think we should consider her emotional reponse until 3×13 more like that of a teenager (and if you closely watch all the episodes until this point everthing makes sense). And considering this she acted kind of strong (not right, just stong).

    • She was 18 ( maybe in the late stages of being 17) …. Cougars showed her 10 year reunion. It was 1998 when she went back to her house to see her Dad getting arrested, which was thus her graduation year. Don’t know about where you live, but you’re usually 18 ( or almost 18 ) when you graduate High School. Of course, Sarah wasn’t ALWAYS with her dad ….she was certainly with him for a lot of her teenage years, but he wasn’t always around, either. I believe that when Sarah met her dad in Vs. The DeLorean, Chuck also mentioned that she was 28 at that point.

      In any case, I think you make a valid point about her emotional age Vs her biological age. Running with her dad and pulling cons would make her, in some ways, more mature than she should have been, but the emotional development would have been stunted because she was taught to not have any empathy for others. Still, she wasn’t made to kill anyone in the CIA until a few years before she met Chuck ( 2 years, I think), and that seems to be when she really had to kill her emotions fully. Obviously she still had a sense of right and wrong at that point, or her Red Test wouldn’t have been the “worst day of her life”. Obviously she must have racked up a lot of First Person Shooter bonus points in the 2 years before she met Chuck ( which is a little hard to imagine, given that she was with Bryce for much of that time…..don’t know when she became Graham’s wild card, lone wolf assassin….just thinking out loud….) But the acts of strength I don’t see….it seemed to me they were either weakness or defensive for the most part. The strongest acts were when she had to save Chuck and go against the government. Luckily, she had Casey backing her up to keep her from getting in too much crap with those impulsive maneuvers ….. as strong and as right as they were.

      • Gary, I am from Germany so I don’t know when americans graduate. But Chuck doesn’t know her age, he just assumes it based on his age. We know that Sarah was 16 because the only time we get on screen “evidence” is in vs the bearded bandit: The file on Verbanski’s desk claims here birth in May 1982. So to make this coherent she either skipped classes or her father just changed her age on faked certificates.

      • Did it say Sarah Walker on the file ?? I’m pretty sure most of Sarah’s previous life would have been redacted …. there would be no way even Verbanski would have Sarah’s true information. Heck, we can’t even get Chuck’s age straight in the show, and nothing is hidden in his past !! I’m more apt to believe the High School graduation year ( before she was a spy) than anything after ….. and I’m sure Chuck wouldn’t come up with the age 28 just as a guess.

      • I cannot cite a specific episode, but I seem to remember someone saying she recruited at 17. Since I graduated from high school at 17 without skipping any levels, she certainly could as well. Surely walking into Graham’s office and saying “No more handlers” was an act of some strength? Graham himself says they often lose agents who go through something like that, so just surviving was an act of some strength?

      • If your birthday is in the summer or fall, you can certainly graduate when you are 17 ….what I mean is that you are in your 18th year. It’s sort of a moot point …she was recruited early and didn’t have the benefit of any emotional support in her life ( other than her mom, who she abandoned )., so you can see how she would be emotionally stunted. However, living the life she did would require a certain amount of maturity and self-sufficiency, since her dad wasn’t around much. She would have had to look after herself, much like Chuck and Ellie had to look after themselves when their parents left them. I would think the Red Test would have been more emotionally stunting than her upbringing.

        But, yes, Lonny ….rejecting being handled was a strong move ….saving the baby was a strong move. I’m not saying she was totally weak……it’s just that I don’t see Jill as being particularly weak…… at least, no more than any of the other characters who couldn’t seem to get out of the rut they were in. At some point, they ALL changed, but it took a little effort to do so.

        As far as ages go, I think there was an episode that showed Frost reading to young Chuck and it showed the year 1994. Since she left when Chuck was 9…that would mean that Chuck was born in 1984 or 85. If you trace back Chuck’s college years and the show starting 5 years after Chuck was kicked out of Stanford, then that would mean that Chuck started college when he was 14 or 15. So I don’t really rely on dates on anything within the series for determining age. If Chuck mentioned Sarah was 28 and she doesn’t correct him, I’m going with the 28 year old in Season 2, since it fits with everything else that happened that year. It also means that Sarah had 7 years of CIA training before she had to perform her Red Test. I find that quite interesting …

      • Isn’t it mentioned somewhere that The CIA sent her to Harvard? I might have picked that up somewhere in FanFic. That would make her 21 heading into 3 years of training, about right.

  14. I think when Fedak was fleshing out the character, he did mention Harvard, but it never came up in the show. I don’t really know her total timeline ….she was with the Cat Squad BEFORE she did her Red Test, so she couldn’t shoot anyone at that point….makes no sense to me. The timing suggests she did her Red Test at about the same time she was with Bryce ….2005….but then when did she became a “loner” wildcard assassin ??? Did she break up with Bryce in 2005 as well ? Anyway, they weren’t the best at continuity in the show …the fiddled with the “facts” to suit that particular episode. That’s what happens with multiple sets of writers as the series progressed ….they didn’t have a firm grasp on the previous stories …just a general storyline.

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