gallery Is Orion Still Alive?

As I begin my rewatch of the final four episodes of Season Two, I have come to ponder a question that I would like to share with my readers. Chuckaholic’s mission is to get the reader to think outside the box. Think beyond the canon of the series, and most importantly think like a writer.

Chuck has been off the air since 2012, but most of us would love to see the beloved series return. Most want to see Chuck and Sarah’s story completed while others like myself would much prefered to answer some questions that need to be answered. For example, how deep was Langston Graham in covering up some of the story’s key villains like Volkoff or why the need to order a hit on Evelyn Shaw? Or even more so why did Larkin feel the needed to destroy the Intersect in the first place.

There is one question that tops them all. A question that should be explored in a revival. The question would be how in the hell was it possible for Daniel Shaw to come up with a sophisticated  Intersect like 3.0 without the mastermind himself?

Which begs the question,

 

chuck318_01139 (1) chuck318_01147 chuck318_01149

IS Orion Still Alive?

The series of Chuck was no stranger in tapping into the proverbial Soap Opera return from the dead storyline. Bryce Larkin, Daniel Shaw and  Orion all came back from what was presumed dead.

Bryce Larkin was believed to be dead when Casey shot him in the pilot, but would return in Nemesis. It was explained by Larkin how Fulcrum kept him alive because they believed he was the human intersect. They used regenerated tissue as well. Daniel Shaw was shot with several slugs from none other than Charles Irving Bartowski, but The Ring saved him by using Dr. Kwambe’s research on cellular regenerated tissue surgery.

Bryce Larkin: Vs Pilot and Nemesis Chuck101-00157

Chuck101-00158Nemesis

Chuck109-01215Chuck110-00166Chuck110-00483Chuck110-00701Chuck110-00715Chuck110-00716It makes sense if you think about it. In Ring II, Larkin said, “Fulcrum was one part of the Ring.” This would mean the Ring and Fulcrum both had access to Dr. Kwambe’s medical experiments,

The very experiments that saved this man after taking slugs into the chest. chuck313_01092 chuck313_01098 chuck313_01110 chuck313_01109

Shaw would return in Chuck vs Subway,  chuck318_00213It was believed  Orion also met his demise in Predator, when it was believed he was in the helicopter that blew up. Chuck217-01073However, we know that wouldn’t be the case, and under his own admission told Chuck, “But I see how I could’ve given you that impression. I’ve had to die quite a few times. One of the perils of being Orion.”

With that said, let’s go back to where Orion was killed. Chuck and Orion just exited the Ring base.  They saw the room in which Shaw himself was recovering from Cellular Regeneration Surgery and was able to download the intersect into his brain. chuck318_01056 chuck318_01097 chuck318_01091chuck318_01095Fulcrum already had the technology because Orion built one for them, and Shaw furthered the cause when giving the data, but in order to build the kind of system Intersect 3.0 was. There still was a need for a programmer to build it, and if you remember no one could duplicate the system. Roark couldn’t get his Intersect functioning despite being on the original Intersect team. As Ted said, Orion had a thing for machines.

Do you remember what it took for Orion to build the intersect 2.0, don’t worry I will remind you.Chuck221-00807Chuck219-01074Chuck219-01072This also puts into question how a man like Shaw with no computer experience like Roark or Orion could possibility create a Intersect 3.0 without Orion’s input which leads me to my question.

Is Orion alive? well, let’s look at the facts again.

Orion was shot in the subway near a Ring base that had Kwambe’s research and the kind of area Orion could begin working on the new Intersect. It’s very similar to the hole in the ground Fulcrum used in Barstow.

It also was very weird for Orion to leave a video recording for Chuck when Orion was with Chuck the whole time.

What do you guys think?  Leave me your opinions below in the comment section.

So, there it is Chuckaholics my mind was pondering this all weekend. Especially when talking with Carol from Twitter, she is an outstanding Chuck fan and someone all Chuckaholics should connect with. her handle is @revgavi77.

20 comments

  1. Simply, yes. The evidence, even if it is circumstantia, is overwhelming. Especially in the world of Chuck. I think the more intriguing question is “does Ellie know” since she was there in the subway and witnessed the events. I think it is more probable that he is alive and Ellie is on on the secret. Movie or season 6 anyone?

    • I think it would be more believable that he was dead when we never saw it before, but with Bryce and Shaw and even himself. It would be very feasible for Orion to still be alive.

      The other evidence was there was no funeral for Orion at all. Ellie knowing is an interesting one for me because while Chuck was taken away. She saw what they did with the body? This is a very unanswered question my friends.

  2. I always had the feeling that Orion must be alive because of the Intersect 3.0. Probably captured somewhere by an evil organization or (what I would rather believe) locked underground by the CIA/NSA. This would also explain why Shawn got the 3.0. (By forcing Decker to get it from Orion).

    However I remember an interview with CF & JS conducted after the final where they mentioned that they were thinking about bringing Orion back for S05 but believed that at least orion’s death has a meaning and therefor he had to stay dead (crappy arguement IMO, anyway).

    • Michael,

      I think for a pitch for a miniseries, it could be a selling point for a 10 part miniseries to reunite Orion with Frost. This would be more a rewarding story. to have the bartowski clan back together.

      as far as Js CF go, I think did a great job with what they had to work with. I mean we are still talking about the show. A lot of us new comers missed it when it was on but thanks to Netflix the series found a resurgence.

      Welcome to Chuckaholics by the way.

  3. Hello Christopher. Liked your blog. Your question “why did Larkin feel the needed to destroy the Intersect in the first place” It was answered in Chuck vs Bo, Quinn said it was supposed to his. Bryce must have known the type of character Quinn was or the fact the Langston Graham was not to be trusted.

    Another question that needs to be answered if the govt knew how to remove the intersect they also knew about the intersect 3.0 and had one. I doubt they would remove it from an agent without having an alternative backup. Or should we think that the enemy had better resources than the US govt. In Season 3 versus Ring Part II the corruption was high up the fact that they arrested the 5 ring leaders did not mean it was over. When Chuck comes back from his honeymoon Claude Decker made sure to let him know that Fulcrum and Ring was just pieces of a bigger plan and although we know he was being blackmailed by Daniel Shaw that bigger plan needs to be addressed.
    Orion is alive and a prisoner of the Cabal. Why not? They want the Intersect. By the way, who found the entrance but Orion even though Chuck flashed. In the beginning of Season 4 when Chuck goes to his father’s basement there were rows and rows of intel and I’m sure somewhere in there Orion knew of groups trying to replicate the intersect. Remember Manoosh, Casey said the Ring gave him equipment from a burnt warehouse that he probably used to rebuild the intersect and I believe Manoosh was a programmer. So someone like Chuck per se can build the Intersect 4.0 since 3.0 was destroyed he did have the schematics that Orion gave him to study. The intersect needs a programmer like Orion, Chuck and even manoosh to make it work.
    Finally, it’s time for Piranha A/K/A Chuck to help Sarah get her memories back or I think it should me more like Letty in Fast and Furious 7 getting her memory back when she saw Torretto in the car crash.

    By the way thanks for the compliment. Chuck is my all time favorite.

    • As you know on twitter, I never needed a conclusion to Sarah and Chuck’s story because we know how that ends with the exception of a magic kiss theory becuase I thought the track record of Chuck and Sarah was not going to work.

      Just look at the history of each kissed and what happened soon after. I always felt the writers and most particularly Chris Fedak had a problem with Sarah Walker, and most authors do end up hating a character, but the character assassination was un call for at the end of the series.

      I would love for Mary Lynn Rajskub would guest star from 24 so we can see a Chloe O’Brian vs Piranha battle for Hacking supremacy

      • I would love that but wouldn’t it be great that she was part of team bartowski where they uncover the conspiracy behind the intersect. Two master programmers working for one purpose to uncover the truth.
        Regarding Sarah Walker I also heard that Chris Fedak did not like the character. Why? was it because she became a beloved character equal to Chuck where we cheered for her normalcy and a true love story with Chuck. A mini series can give us the happy ending we all desire. Even the writers from Hunger games – The Mockingjay 2 knew the importance of a good ending.

      • I have always had problems with the Intersect. First when Chuck gets the intersect 1.0 from Bryce, it takes hours, judging from the movement of the sun outside his window; but when Sarah gets the damaged 2,0 she absorbs it in seconds and far from being stunned she is instantly ready for combat. Granted they may have improved the interface between versions but that seems like a giant leap. Manoosh’s version seemed to require a new upload for each use, but if the CIA has Manoosh, he could be the one behind the 3.0 as well as Orion. The CIA has more of the original for him to reverse engineer than the Ring had. If I was Sarah, I would not want to get my memories back via the intersect. They wouldn’t be memories with all the emotion attached memories have, they would just be data flashes. Which poses another question, Morgan apparently lost random memories, Indiana Jones, movie trilogy night, etc all from farther back in his past, Sarah’s were deleted linearly from the present back 5 years. Further, what about Chuck being “Special”? Up to and including “Suburbs” Chuck is shown as someone with a gift for uploading the intersect, all of the Fulcrum agents were killed or brain damaged by their intersect but Chuck absorbs it easily. Yet from season 3 on everybody gets it, no problem. What’s up with that? And why didn’t Chuck give Sarah his damper watch in Japan? If she had been wearing it she might not have lost her memories. Continuity seems to have been an on going problem with the show. I have just finished re-watching the original Shaw arc, “Awesome” to “Other Guy”. I was dreading it because the writers certainly seemed to be grasping at straws to keep Chuck and Sarah apart. Yet it was easier than I anticipated. A lot of Chuck fans really got down on Sarah here, but careful viewing leads me to put more blame on Chuck himself. More on that when this forum gets that far, but know I think Sarah got bad rapped here. As far as reviving Chuck, I am all for it, but sadly doubt it will happen. If “Manhattan Nocturne” is as good as it should be, it should make Yvonne an A-list star and probably too busy to return to Chuck. Sorry, Chuck without Sarah is a no go, I doubt I could watch. If Chuck does go on I think it would be cool if Sarah got a stable intersect and she and Chuck became a sort of super couple.

      • Yes, they are soulmates. Yin & yang. However, realistically a magical kiss will not do it. After finding out the truth Sarah went to say goodbye to Chuck she said “she didn’t feel it”. She was in full throttle when hunting for Quinn. Remember she said that she was a good spy.At all times she behaved professionally. When she killed Quinn the shot when right between his eyes similar to the shot she took in Chuck vs the Break up (S2 E3) when she was with Bryce. At the end of the episode she told Chuck she needed time. No matter all the details that Chuck might have given Sarah as to their life together the emotions and feelings that she had for him would not come to surface, The kiss was just a desire for Morgan’s magic kiss to be real because at this point anyone would try to do everything in their power to regain their memory. Remember she said she could read people so she knew that Chuck would not hurt her or deceive her or kissing him was a genuine attempt to get her memory back. Did it happen I doubt it; I have seen many movies with plots that the wife loses their memory and the marriages go on the rock the only solutions have been when the husband/soulmate has had to win them back. Enters mini season 6 where Chuck has to charm his way back into Sarah’s life. It might be a little harder since he is not an asset any more but this time as a spy and intersect will need to use another tactics.

      • They were soulmates until S3.

        Without any rebuilding of the relationship after it was thoroughly destroyed.

        This lack of resolution made it so that the relationship never regained the “specialness” it had prior to the S3 foolnishness. Without this “specialness” fan’s intepretation of the finale can go either way.

  4. As of the story being told ( the canon), Orion is dead, and JS and CF left him dead. That is the truth of the storyline. To ask, Is Orion dead or alive?, the answer is, without a doubt, he’s dead. Now, if you want to go away from the storyline in a TV series, then you can make the story anything you want, because, quite literally, anything is possible. SO you can make Orion alive, make him a part of the Ring, etc., etc. Since it is all theoretical, without anyway to prove or disprove , then you can make up anything you want …even the storyline that Orion is alive.

    • I don’t think that you want to get the point of this question. Sure Orion died. But they still left it open for him to return. Even thought about bringing him back.

      You should focus on what the actually showed, but also imagine what they didn’t rule out by not showing. There are posibilities for Orion to come back, so it is not out of the canon. And actually what the canon of the show implies is ‘everyone can come back’ no matter the odds

      • The possibilities in fiction are endless. The show was written so that Orion was killed ( i.e., he’s dead ) and the writers agreed to leave it that way. However, he could very well be brought back to life by any means possible if the story was to continue. The fact that there was the chamber very close allows that story to be very plausible. Yes…there was no funeral, but in the case of TV, someone being alive after they were dead does not even need that type of plausibility. Hell, they had a funeral for Bryce, with a casket and everything, and he still came back to life. So the question, “Is Orion alive ?” is unanswerable, because the show had him killed, but, as many posters have shown, it would be very easy to bring him back to life. However, he was NOT alive at the end of the story that we know, so he’s only alive in everyone’s imaginary Chuck revision.

  5. Lonny, you are absolutely right Chuck without Sarah Walker (Yvonne Strahovski) has no chance. Truthfully I’m more for a series a movies that would answer some of the open questions that fans have or need for closure. If either Zachary or Yvonne become an A-lister as you say; we can forget about a Chuck Re-boot. its taken 3 years for all the casts to put Chuck behind them; we Chucksters are running out of time. To top if all off Chris Fedak does not want to reboot Chuck. My questions to you all, if the creators sold their rights to Chuck to Time Warner/NBC can someone else do the Chuck Reboot if Chris or Josh do not. Can NBC hire another creative team to bring back Chuck? Just curious. I think NBC does not grasp Chuck’s popularity internationally.

  6. I’m a writer and here’s one of my thoughts for a reboot:

    Is it really feasible that Jeffster are a music sensation – even in Europe?

    Has Casey really gone to find true love with Gertrude?

    Are Ellie and Captain Awesome really going to do their dream jobs?

    No! They are all (unwittingly or otherwise) now working undercover.

    The crisis comes when Chuck and Sarah are abducted, Sarah is still deadly and Chuck, although Intersect free has proven capabilities to absorb incredible amounts of data. They both have their minds wiped clean and become enemy agents (and adversaries too). Their mission is to infiltrate and destroy Beckman’s new secret operation and to wipe out those involved in it. Casey is alerted and must find the old ruthless Casey to stop Chuck and Sarah before they can cause damage to Beckman’s mission and his daughter and her loved ones.

    And yes, if Orion is still alive I suspect he wouldn’t be too far from Ellie.

    This will give plenty of scope for all the characters we love best and chance for the Chuck and Sarah relationship to achieve the moment it deserves.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s