Chuck vs The Nacho Sampler

The sixth episode of season three gave us a new look into the pilot. As we will learn what it meant to be a asset. Chuck will get to play the role of a handler. Sarah feels Chuck isn’t ready for this kind of mission.

The team learns The Ring were in the market for their own Intersect, and wired a man named Manoosh a large amount of money to design an Intersect. The agency catches wind of the transfer and Team Bartowski have their new mission. Chuck must get close to Manoosh in order find out why the money was sent.

Let’s get a taste of the Nacho Sampler.

The episode opened with a flashback to the pilot as we watch Sarah Walker walk towards the Nerd Herd Desk.

Sarah first day in BurbankThe flashback was for Morgan as he watched Hannah walk into the store for her first day on the job, a wind aided walk and all as Morgan’s day dream because he became instantly attracted to Hannah.

Hannah in her nerd herd gearHowever for Mr. Grimes, he would lose the girl to his best friend. Her smiles were for Chuck.  Morgan would tell everyone to get back to work. Chuck would warn Hannah about the vultures in the store including Jeffster. She wouldn’t need Chuck’s warning to tell the asylum that was the Buymore.

While Hannah began asking questions about Buymore procedure. Casey came by and told Chuck it was “Yogurt time.”  Down in Castle, they were going over the new mission with Chuck.

Yogart time

Manoosh
The Ring transferred a large amount of money in this civilian’s bank account, and Beckman wanted to know why. The man’s name is Manoosh

Casey and Sarah would tell Chuck the mission would require Chuck to use a cover to get close to Manoosh and find out why the ring sent him the money. Casey was willing to teach him, but Sarah was rather reserved for the assignment. She felt Chuck was being pushed too quickly.

In order to make the connection, the agency sent a virus to Manoosh’s computer. It damaged the computer enough for Manoosh to make a trip to the Buymore.

The team learning about Manoosh Chuck’s education into the spy world would test him mentally. The end result would be for Chuck 2.0 to rear its ugly head. How will Sarah handle this?  not good.

First, Chuck needed to get some pointers in how to make an asset feel comfortable. Sarah told Chuck to make the asset believe he was in complete control.

Chuck’s problem in this scene was the classic rookie mistake. He did one “mish.” He is cocky, and said the mission would be a piece of cake.

Chuck thinks a piece of cake
Sarah explaining what it takes to be an asset/handler relationship Sarah:You need to insinuate yourself into their life And have them trust you completely, Knowing that one day you’re probably gonna have to burn them.

If we are to compare the teachings of the team with what Sarah did. By definition, Sarah did her job well than, but she threw a wrench into her training, shortly.

We are pushing him too quickly
Sarah: Chuck’s not ready for an asset. We’re advancing him too quickly. I’m worried. Casey: Your job’s not to worry, it’s to train.

Manoosh entered the store, and it was game time for Bartowski. Chuck entered the store, and searched the store for his mark. When Chuck found Manoosh, he was talking with Hannah.

Chuck interrupted Manoosh’s flow with the hottie.  Hannah was taken back by Chuck’s attitude towards a simple sale. What went on was very comical. Instead of taking the advise of his team. Chuck was looking for date basically.

Damn man i had that chickTake it..don't worry

Chuck failed at his first attempt. Casey said, He stood corrected. Chuck wasn’t ready for an asset much to the delight of Sarah for being proven right.

Sarah knew Chuck wasn't ready

Meanwhile, the vultures were circling Hannah again. Chuck saved her and reminded her about what he told them earlier. They were dangerous. She asked about the Bartowski Tutorial, but Chuck said he had to do an install first.

Chuck making the save for HannahChuck Bartowski's file When Chuck returned to Castle, they told Chuck he came on too strong. Chuck and Casey were going over an asset’s file, but it turned out it was Chuck’s file. Casey told him about how Sarah was given the assignment.

They were told  Chuck was a loner, an underachiever and haven’t had a date in a year. Chuck said, it wasn’t over a year. Chuck remembered how it was the luckiest day of his life when Sarah left her card so they could go out.

Sarah: They thought you and I could connect.

Chuck: I remember you left me your card so I could Call you so we could go out. Felt like I was having the luckiest day of my life.
god, I was pathetic.

Sarah: No, you were sweet and innocent. I liked you.
It made it much harder.

Sarah showing love in her eyes again.

The thing that stands out for me in this scene would be Sarah’s expression as she thinks about that day they met. She is smiling, which means she is loving the memory. It’s the Chuck she wants to remember. In other words, the love she has for Chuck is still there.

The reason it was hard for her to burn Chuck was the very reason. Love was on her mind then. She just didn’t know how much. Love makes you do crazy things. As I mentioned in other articles, she was told to go home, but chose on her own to stay. She assumed the role as his handler on her own because she fell in love.

There is the connection already. Sarah’s feelings got in the way of her doing her job already, which means she failed her first handler job in the eyes of the agency. It didn’t matter to Sarah because she found love.

Chuck was already at the bar reading a book. Manoosh sat beside him, and ordered the nacho sampler. The bartender told Manoosh they were out of the nacho sampler. Casey informed Chuck they stole the dip from the kitchen. It left Chuck with the only sampler.  The proverbial ice breaker.

Manoosh wanting them nachos

Manoosh recognized Chuck from the store, and complimented him on his reading selection. Chuck began wiggling himself into becoming connected with Manoosh. As they started to talk about common issues facing the nerd. The problem for Bartowski was his timing. The Ring would call Manoosh about their business deal.

Nerd talk convention

Chuck noticed he had a Ring phone, and informed the team in the van. They were able to trace the call, and they were five minutes out. It was time to send in a closer.

The song of the episode aired at this time. Calvin Harris’s Merrymaking time at my place. It was sexy Sarah time.

there isn't a man in this world that could resist

Sarah appearance made both men do a double take. Manoosh was hyperventilating as Sarah approached. When she came closer Manoosh was gasping for air. It was very funny to me.

Oh my goshHoly Crap Casey would tell the team The Ring have arrived to get him out there. Sarah tranq kissed Manoosh, which bothered Bartowski. Why jealousy would come out of Bartowski is beyond me.

As they were driving away, Casey would say another one bits the dust, which drew a dirty look from Bartowski. A sense of feeling bad for Manoosh as well. Chuck’s wondering if this was supposed to happen to him.

Is this what was supposed to happen to me

Back at Castle, Sarah playing a cover made Manoosh think they slept together, but it was all a ploy to get Manoosh to sing, but before Sarah would get the nerd to spill. Manoosh wanted another go for the road. Casey ended that dream with a tranq.

Sarah playing with mind of Manoosh
Because there’s something just so mysterious about you And sexy. And you were telling me about your top secret work, And secrets turn me on

We come up to a key scene in this episode. Chuck was falling back into pre Chuck 2.0. He was showing concern for the asset. As Casey was loading up for the next tranq. Chuck stepped in and called Manoosh. He said, he had Manoosh’s briefcase and would be by the Buymore in a half hour to return it.

Sarah and Chuck are talking as equals here because they are on the same level. Chuck was coming to her for advice. Something she liked. Remember Sarah was his teacher first. When Chuck had a question. Sarah would teach because he confided in her about the spy world.

Chuck would look through the briefcase to find anything. He didn’t flash on anything. They found something that appeared to be a weapon. Chuck became worried if they gave the briefcase without the weapon what the Ring would do to him. Casey was realistic. Manoosh wasn’t innocent. He was building a weapon.

He would then turn to Sarah for advice on how to handle this. She said, forget about it. It makes being a spy easier. However, this was a lie because Sarah doesn’t forget about it. More on that later.

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As Chuck returned to the Buymore with the briefcase, Devon told Chuck he was freaking out about lying to Ellie. He told Chuck how Ellie found his Paris mission airline ticket. Devon saw Ellie come into the store. Ellie would ask Chuck about the ticket, and Chuck 2.0 returned much to the dismay of Sarah.

I talked about this scene in this article Sarah Walker vs Agent Walker Part 4: Chapter two, It was just a walk through. Here is where I will explain the significance of this scene to the overall story.

While Sarah understands lying, she does it herself. As Casey said, she taught him well. The issue is how callous Chuck was and not caring for what he did. Chuck always felt bad about lying to his sister.

Watch this scene,

Chuck hated lying to his sister, and Sarah always understood it was hard for Chuck. However, Sarah watched Chuck blatantly lie to his sister. It’s why Sarah had this expression on her face. It’s not the same Chuck that was in her hotel room freaking out about lying to Ellie. He followed through with “Ellie and I aren’t kids anymore, all right? There are some things she’s better off not knowing.”

This isn't her Chuck

Sarah listening to chuck complain about lying

It’s why Sarah is shocked by Chuck’s actions. As I wrote in Sarah Walker vs Agent Walker. It’s the first red flag Sarah saw in changes to Chuck’s personality.

Manoosh showed up to the Buymore, and Chuck brought him the briefcase. Manoosh said he would look up Bartowski when he returned from a trip he was taking. He also said he would ask Bartowski to work with him. As Manoosh said this, Chuck told him to stay here. He was going to get him some yogurt for the trip.

Chuck would ask Casey to give him the weapon before the Ring hurt Manoosh. Casey said, “Cry me a river…He’s building weapon.
He’s no innocent. He’s served his purpose. That’s what an asset is.
Conduit to information, nothing more.

Outside, Manoosh was surrounded by Ring agents. Chuck watching from the monitor watched with concern in his eyes. As the agents moved in. Manoosh went into his briefcase, and pulled out a pair of sunglasses, and put them on.

Manoosh dawning the Intersect GlassesChuck watching manoosh

Chuck realized watching Manoosh take out the agents, who the real weapon was. It was Manoosh. He was able to build his father’s creation. It’s why the Ring forward all that money to him. They were in the market for a intersect of their own. It only heightens the need to stop Manoosh from selling the intersect to the faction.

The team soon would discover that Manoosh purchased a flight to India. Casey would tell them he was going to Weapons Comm. Casey became super excited by the idea of being able to write the convention off this year.

The team arrived in India, and went searching  for Manoosh. This scene is worth talking about on a Orion level. When Orion ran, he wanted no part in creating the Intersect for the purpose of what Manoosh wanted to do.  Orion wanted the program to be used to help people.

The government/Fulcrum and The Ring wanted to use the program as weapon. When watching showcasing the Intersect for the world to see, the secret wasn’t a secret anymore. Manoosh went up on stage, and put on a demonstration on the Intersect.

Manooshing dawning intersect glasses

The team had no other choice. It was time to bring Manoosh down. He was dangerous to the public, and also a target from the rest of the world. The same place for Manoosh was under lock and key with Lazlo.

It also reinforces why Bryce sent the Intersect to Chuck. He knew Chuck would be able to handle the program responsibly. Chuck would use the Intersect the way Orion originally designed the program.

The team would confront Manoosh in the back. Casey was going to tranq him, but Chuck had confidence in talking down his asset. It wasn’t that easy. Manoosh was shocked by seeing Chuck in India.

Casey ready to tran ManooshChuck warning Manoosh

Chuck told Manoosh he was there to protect him. Furthermore, he couldn’t allow Manoosh to sell to bad people. When Chuck said this, Sarah came out from hiding, and it set Manoosh off. Manoosh threw it back into Chuck’s face. He said he didn’t need friend as long as he had the glasses.

Manoosh decided to take off, but was rudely interrupted by The ring agents from the bar.

Hello, Manoosh we been looking for you

Soon Team Bartowski would join the party, and the Ring agents would capture them. The Ring would lock Team Bartowski in a storage cage.

Team captured

Casey would say the line of the episode, He would tell Chuck to grab the laser pen out of his inside pocket. As Chuck was grabbing it with his mouth, Casey warned him about not pushing the button, and as he said. Chuck pressed sending Casey to the side rather quickly.

That was closebe careful bartowski

Casey: You aim carefully now, Bartowski.
Don’t you make me a eunuch.
Otherwise, I’ll teach you the meaning of eye for an eye.

Team Bartowski  were able to break out of the room, and went to save Manoosh.  The Ring leader asked where was the glasses they asked for.  Manoosh said, he wasn’t going to give it to them. When the agent threatened to kill him. Manoosh manned up. He said, you need me.  He would drop the glasses on the floor and stepped on them. Team Bartowski would join the fray.

Casey said, he was willing to shoot Manoosh as well, but Chuck wasn’t alright with that idea. He threatened the agent if he didn’t let Manoosh go he would use his laser pen to pierce through the agent’s earlobe. This is the Chuck I prefer, the take charge and  his emotions are in check.  When Chuck pushed the button, a knife came out. It was funny because Casey used a funny line. “Typical Bartowski, bringing a knife to a gun fight.”

Chuck would flash on some ninja stars, and throw the knife at the agent’s hand and an all out brawl to place. What was cool about the scene would be the return favor from Wookie.

As Chuck flung a plate at the baddie that was about to take out Sarah. I remembered Sarah did it for Chuck in Wookie when she flung a plate across the pool.

Flinging platesSarah in trouble

It was decision time. Will Chuck burn Manoosh is the question. Chuck from season one and two mostly likely not, but Chuck 2.0 came into play here.

At first, Chuck let Manoosh walk, but Chuck changed his mind. He Tranq Manoosh much to the dismay of Sarah. This would mark warning flag two of the episode.

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I want to try and explain my theory on this a little bit. What Chuck did was the right thing to do. Manoosh was no innocent. Casey knew it and judging by Chuck’s actions so did he. The interesting part of the equation would be Sarah.

Sarah’s expression is a perplexing one. Here is my question for this episode. Why was Sarah shocked by seeing Chuck tranqing Manoosh. could it be jealousy or concern. I would like your feedback on this.

My take is Chuck’s ability to complete the mission was at play here. Sarah said earlier it was hard for her. She liked Chuck. He seemed to like Manoosh, but at the end of the day he remember his duty and fired the dart into Manoosh’s back.

It’s a form of jealousy because he was able to complete the mission, and it’s about to get worse for Sarah. As he has to now burn him. Sarah couldn’t burn Chuck because she fell for him, but its deeper then that.

Chuck and Sarah both have hearts and the idea of building trust and then later turning their back on them seem to last on Sarah. When she asked Graham about Chuck running, he told her to kill him. Here was her expression after getting the order.

She didn’t want to do it. She said, it became harder because she liked Chuck.  It means she was failing her first handler mission. She was compromised. Meanwhile, in his first assignment as a handler, Chuck was able to shoot a dart and eventually burn Manoosh.

Let’s talk about that scene now.

Chuck and Sarah were discussing what they had to do with Manoosh. At this time, Sarah told Chuck it was best for Manoosh to be under lock and key. In my view, she was testing Chuck. How far would he go to accomplish this assignment, and it was a bit of a rough sight for her because of how Chuck handled it.

Take a look,

Burning an asset was something Sarah didn't like to doSarah doesn't like this part of the job

Sarah was showing it was the part of the job she couldn’t do. She has a heart and what was happening to Manoosh didn’t seem right to her.  It’s the same expression she gave here.

She can't do it

When Chuck was able to tell Manoosh he wasn’t his friend, Sarah’s expression showed signs of disdain for this aspect of the job, and the fact that Chuck was able to do it heightened Sarah’s concern. It also was the first time she admitted out loud her feelings on Chuck becoming a spy. “Is it?”

Chuck struggling with burning manooshSarah worried about Chuck

What really happened was both of them hated what Chuck had to do. However, Chuck was still able to burn Manoosh, and Sarah’s jealousy of Chuck 2.0 has begun. Chuck succeeded in his first handler/asset whereas Sarah didn’t. What do you guys think of that?

Buymore Story 

This Buymore store was actually funny.  Morgan was smitten over Hannah, and asked Jeffster to do some stalking. It was quite funny how Morgan came up with a cover for himself to impress Hannah, but I think Jeff said it best “she was out of his league”

Morgan called for Hannah

However, Hannah slipped a bit. She told Morgan she met Chuck in Paris. It bothered Morgan he wasn’t told about Chuck’s trip to Paris. At the end of the episode, Morgan would ask Jeffster to do some research on Chuck.

Overall Thoughts Of the Episode

The episode is a favorite of mine. I always pair it with the pilot because it dives into what the asset/handler relationship is. We find out that both Sarah and Chuck don’t like this aspect of the job.

Sarah also gets the first two red flags when it comes to Chuck 2.0 and its effects on Chuck’s personality.  She also would voice her concerns about Chuck becoming a spy when she wonder if it was a good thing for Chuck to become a spy.

The next episode is a rather difficult one for most Chuck fans. It ranks last on a lot of people’s list of the 91 episodes of the series. Unfortunately, we have to discuss The Mask twice here on Chuckaholics. until then remember this is your site, so play.

and it’s hard to say goodbye because we didn’t

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

92 comments

  1. Weap-con was in Dubai…not India. 😉

    If Chuck downloaded 2.0 for the greater good, then Manoosh had to be brought down. Casey knew it, Sarah knew it and Chuck knew it. If Chuck was to protect his cover ( which Sarah told him he had to do, right from the beginning), then he had to lie to Ellie. After 2 1/2 years of doing so, he would have gotten used to it whether he had the 2.0 or not.

    This all part of Sarah seeing the glass half empty rather than half full. She only focuses on the negative aspects of Chuck at this point in time. She doesn’t trust that Chuck will maintain his basic integrity through his spy training. He managed to maintain it all through the first 2 seasons when he was going through major changes, but Sarah feels he won’t now. I think this is a Sarah problem …not Chuck. I mean , Chuck pretty well aided Casey in taking out a room full of Fulcrum agents in the Suburbs. He heads up to Sasha’s room in Seduction by himself and manages to obtain the cipher. Chuck is not really doing a lot different here than he did in the first 2 seasons….it’s just that now he wants to actually be a spy, and that has implications for Sarah. We don’t know if it’s a trust issue, a control issue or what it is at this point ( we’ll find out later in the season), but Sarah can’t see straight.

    And comparing the 2 asset / handler jobs is tough…apples and oranges. Sarah fell in love with Chuck ….. it was a whole different level than just identifying with the asset, which is what Chuck could do with Manoosh. So yes, he did it…he burned the asset, which was the right thing to do. And instead of showing any concern for how much Chuck was hurting, she focused on the notion that Chuck had changed. ( and I call it a notion, or the whole little reconciliation in Other Guy makes absolutely no sense). So no…she wasn’t jealous of 2.0….she just plain didn’t like it. I think Sarah always had an on again / off again relationship with the Intersect…..it kept Chuck safe ( as we move forward ), but it also made him braver than she felt comfortable with. Remember, Sarah likes to be in control of every situation… with the Intersect, Sarah can’t control Chuck. As well, she just doesn’t trust him. I don’t think she fully trusts Chuck (as a spy) until he takes out Shaw in Season 5 …without the Intersect. Maybe not even until the Baby.

    • I wouldn’t dispute this is a Sarah issue, and it’s the beginning of the story where we begin to see Sarah’s personal doubt of Chuck becoming a spy.

      Chuck is progressing now. You mention his successes from S1 and S2 but he still lacked confidence in himself to accomplish it.

      Remember how he reacted when Roan told him to remember Thailand. He didn’t think he could do it. When he did it, he shocked himself.

      S3’s Chuck let the Intersect over take him. A crutch if you will. He believed Sarah and Casey where is mentors, but not S3’s Chuck or as I like to say Chuck 2.0

      You can’t compare the lies of the first 2 years because they were fed to him by Sarah and Casey. What he did in this episode was all him. It’s the shock value from Sarah.

      The lack of trust from Sarah is direct cause of selfishness. When she will say she wants to remember who she is. She is really referrencing Chuck. She wants to remember who he is because she doesn’t recognize this Chuck because she doesn’t want to accept it.

      Just like Chuck couldn’t accept Sarah choosing him over Bryce. It’s the accepting portion now. It’s the Nerd vs The agent

    • @G
      “If Chuck downloaded 2.0 for the greater good, then Manoosh had to be brought down. Casey knew it, Sarah knew it and Chuck knew it. If Chuck was to protect his cover ( which Sarah told him he had to do, right from the beginning), then he had to lie to Ellie. After 2 1/2 years of doing so, he would have gotten used to it whether he had the 2.0 or not.”

      Kind of agree but …

      Chuck was looking at the overall picture of the intersect and that is why Manoosh had to go down. Whereas Sarah did not see it that way.

      Sarah was looking at Chuck in terms of person to person, so she only saw a Chuck (the person) burning Manoosh. I would hazard a guess to say that Sarah did not see the mission through Chuck’s eyes.

      You could say she was acting in a way more typical of her feminine side than her spy side. Rose tinted glasses, looking for evidence of a Chuck change after his willingness to jump on board the Shaw training schedule.

      Sarah was looking for conflict because she did not want Chuck to be a spy. Sarah was suspicious of Chuck’s motives because it was very different to Chuck season 1 and 2. She had told herself it is wrong for Chuck to be a spy and as we know, Sarah is always right and never apologises – she just says it won’t happen again.

      In a way Sarah was right. Chuck would never be a real spy. So she was starting to mother him that way and disapproving of his choice. Could Chuck become a Manoosh? I am sure it was in the back of her mind and yes, she might have to burn Chuck because of it. Unsettling thoughts and some bad issues sitting in Sarah’s mind I think.

      Jealousy of intersect 2.0? I would think more a fear of intersect 2.0.
      We fear what we do not understand and this was certainly something no one understood. And based on the possibility of Chuck becoming a Manoosh – a fear of the future driven by intersect 2.0

      So not jealousy, but fear. That’s how I see it.

      • I see Manoosh along the Orion level.

        Orion hated the fact that his invention was going to be used as a weapon rather then help people. Fulcrum, The Ring and the CIA were the flip of that as they wanted it to better their position in stopping the other.

        However, Manoosh was the middle of that. He would of sold it to the highest bidder, and that was the other thing that worried Orion.

        As for Sarah, the jealousy I am talking isn’t like what she felt when Chuck was with other women. The jealousy I am talking spawns off of fear. She can put on a smile and go with it, but inside of her its tormenting her. Jealousy would spark the mother in her to deter Chuck. She wasn’t going to sabotage his dream like she did with his past dates, but all Sarah could hope for would be the pressure of training for Chuck to return to the old Chuck she wants to remember.

        I am almost done with the Mask, and I see the episode in a different light. I hope you like it

      • I see that.
        Manoosh is the antithesis of Orion and I think Chuck needs to navigate to the centre ground of both of them.

        Jealousy requires an understanding of the thing you are jealous of. A new car, another woman, a job promotion etc …

        You can see all these things and therefore be jealous of someone else having it; but the intersect? No one understands the intersect. So fear is my word. a Fear of what the intersect is and can do, and how it may change Chuck and how it may impact on Sarah’s view of Chuck (and therefore her worldview).

      • not in this case, I agree Jealousy does come from something you know.

        Sarah knows the Intersect she worked with the program for two years.I mean when Chuck took out 5 guys by himself even Casey was Oh Chuck me, but Casey moved on quicker from that because he didn’t have a personal investment like Sarah did.

        As I said to Gary, the night Chuck downloaded 2.0 Sarah changed because of what she dealt with Bryce being killed and this machine taking on 5 guys. I remind you he had not prior training before hand.

        Thats a blow to the system. Sarah doesn’t like change and 2.0 was about to rock her world. She does not Intersect 1.0 flash and thats it.

        now flash and can conduct backflips through laser beans its jealousy of a different kind

      • I agree with everything you are saying, I just don’t see jealousy being the dominant theme in Sarah’s mind. Jealousy is just a small part of what is happening. Fear through loss of control is more dominant to me.

      • I think fear, jealousy and all the other bits invites ‘uncertainty’ and ‘surprise’ to the spy world and spy missions. As we all know, Sarah does not like surprises.

      • “Yes, except she admitted to her mother that of all the things Chuck taught her. It was ok to be surprised”

        But that lesson is over 20 episodes away yet (easily).
        She needs to get past Paris yet to hear that message.

        Compromises are great.
        We can thrash this out 🙂

      • your saving grace is I am trying to get through The Mask. lol oh the pain. I agree this is a tough episode for me too, and the truth is I don’t believe anything Sarah said in Castle, but wait for the article to publish.

      • After it has finished, go outside and shout really loud.

        “truth is I don’t believe anything Sarah said in Castle”

        I am looking forward to the debate people …

  2. I wish manoosh had a comeback in the series later on at least for two episodes. I am in complete agreement with Gary sarah seemed to loose trust with Chuck

    • Kyle,

      Welcome to Chuckaholics, I hope you enjoyed your visit.

      I can totally understand the lack of trust because its not the Chuck she can accept. She has visions of what Chuck should be. The help the Ballerina and give his money to Ellie so she can have a nice wedding.

      This Chuck she has a hard time accepting. The driven and focused Chuck who is striving to become the spy she doesn’t want him to be. Again, its the classic He wants her cake and eat it too. Can’t have it both ways.

      • But in order for Sarah to want to run away with Chuck at the beginning, it had to be a trust issue … when she lies to get Chuck to run, she’s doing it because she doesn’t trust him… (either not to change …or to make the “correct” decision if she tells him the truth ).

        And, let’s face it, Chuck is a bit of an a$$ in this episode …he’s getting pretty full of himself. Of course, he also hasn’t done much with his life up to this point to provide himself a reason to show so much bravado. Getting a little comeuppance with blowing his first encounter with Manoosh was well worth it… and Sarah’s look was priceless.

        And, yes, Chris…Chuck did some pretty brave things in Season 1 and 2, but he was dragged into theses things for the most part, even though he enjoys the rush, methinks. He’s a willing participant this year, but he still hasn’t done much to drive Sarah away as quickly as she gets driven away in this and the next episode. Plus I can’t really pinpoint where Chuck “falls out of love” with Sarah. It’s like the writers wanted to tell this story, couldn’t figure out how to make Prague into that story, and then quickly introduced a different line of attack.

        I mean, Chris ….what should Chuck have told Ellie about Paris ? Do you REALLY think it was as bad as Sarah made it out to be ?

      • It isn’t running away because of lack of trust. It’s running away from change. Most people can’t handle change.

        But as Sam Cooke once sang, “Change is going to come.” now how one deals with it makes or breaks character. I agree with Sean, Sarah was losing the captain of the ship to sharing the post with Chuck. She allowed him to run missions in S1 and S2 but gave him enough rope not to hang himself.

        Prague isn’t an issue anymore. That was cleared up when she returned home in Operation Awesome. This is different. the question would be Can she still love someone that made big changes to themselves. I don’t see it as flaw either or more of a reality check for Sarah

      • Chris,

        Prague is an issue still….not that they aren’t over it, but because that’s where the distrust started. Sarah lying to Chuck about why they have to run is always about distrust. Read what I said… Sarah thinking Chuck would change ( his basic integrity ) without proof that he would actually change…that IS distrust. She didn’t trust him to grow without changing who he was.

        “Can she still love someone that made big changes to themselves.”

        Did he make big changes ? If he did, then Sarah never did resolve those issues, because she reconciled with the famous line…, ” You’re still Chuck …you’re still my Chuck.”

        So, did he change, or is Sarah lying to herself?

      • And that is my point Sarah was lying to herself. Look at the track record.

        In Hard Salami, she cries in the beginning of the episode after saying it was for the cover. She is lying about being for cover because it wasn’t. An agent isnt supposed to wait for her moment to jump the gun and interfere when Chuck on’s on a date.

        She lied to Carina when she said the Charm bracelet wasn’t her thing. Carina saw right through that lie. in fake name she was lying when she said It was too much for Chuck. I think it was hard for Chuck at all.

        so yes she was lying to herself.

      • OK.. I asked the question about the big reconciliation…
        “Did he make big changes ? If he did, then Sarah never did resolve those issues, because she reconciled with the famous line…, ” You’re still Chuck …you’re still my Chuck.”

        So, did he change, or is Sarah lying to herself?”

        Chris answered,
        “so yes she was lying to herself.”

        So, in essence, the remainder of the series …from S3 E13 onwards…is predicated on a lie. Sarah doesn’t really believe Chuck is who he says he is. His basic integrity, his innate goodness…it’s all imaginary to Sarah. After all, those are the changes Sarah was worried about.

        Interesting take on it.

      • It’s not the same in S1 or S2, Chuck 2.0 was the difference.

        Chuck 1.0 was still the Chuck she envision. She could teach him how to be a spy and the pros and cons of it. At a slower pace then Shaw wanted because at least Chuck would gradually become the weapon the CIA wanted.

        Shaw’s approach was push him in the water and let him learn on his own. It’s why when she told Shaw her name was Sam, she lied then too.

        Sam wasn’t her name it was a code name for what we will never know. All we know her real name could be was Jenny Burton. Her father’s name was Jack Burton. Where Sam came from doesn’t fit

        Sarah said it herself many times. She was in love with regular Chuck bartowski.

      • Hi! Christopher I agree with some of the replies. I don’t think Sarah was jealous but fearful that Chuck was changing and there was nothing she could do. Her Chuck the one she fell in love with was changing.
        Regarding Manoosh, Chuck made all the right decisions because he knew what the intersect in the wrong hands can be a game changer. Also once you see Manoosh’s conversations with Chuck you know he did not have a noble heart like Chuck but should I say a greed one so the best for the CIA was to lock him up. Sarah forgot that Chuck was a good student and as such would try to make the right choices when needed and tranqing & burning the asset was the right choice even if he could see himself in Manoosh. Remember that when Chuck said “I have a plan” they usually worked out because he was analytical an advantage that he had over Casey and Sarah.

  3. Some thoughts:

    “Sarah:You need to insinuate yourself into their life And have them trust you completely, Knowing that one day you’re probably gonna have to burn them.”

    Realistically this kind of open declaration must be a real headache for Chuck. I mean,

    1] Sarah has to really believe Chuck. And by ‘belief’, I mean something of biblical proportions to make sense of the spy world and to know that anything would be real – could be real, or is worth ‘taking a chance’.

    2] Chuck must really trust Sarah to know he is not being played; and when he hears her say that, that must make him swallow and give him a dry mouth.

    So in essence, I guess a lot of the perceived ‘writers screw-up’ in season 3 must account for the above dilemma; and by this, I mean how can Chuck and Sarah move forward in light of the above?

    Looking back over the previous seasons. Yes, we have clearly seen Chuck and Sarah become boyfriend and girlfriend (I like to think that happened when he gave her the bracelet). They both have ‘trust and ‘belief’ in one another – but obviously, when you get missions like this, it really is going to play havoc with any linear progression in the storyline without Chuck and Sarah being able to openly display their feelings.

    No wonder Shaw had an easy team wrecking Sarah and Hannah had an easy time pulling Chuck.

    Also, from what Sarah declares we can see that she is treating Chuck as a fellow spy (after all, she could only say the above words about manoosh if she saw him as that knowing that chuck would start asking questions about them if she had any doubts). Based on this I think we can see that:

    Sarah is super confident about her relationship with Chuck at this present time. It doesn’t matter if they are hot or cold with each other at the moment, by declaring the spy/handler relationship in such cold terms, she must know that Chuck would never (historically) question her.

    So based on this, why do the writers throw Sarah’s current acceptance of Chuck as spy out of the window in the future episodes?

    Which rings me to this:

    “Chuck wasn’t ready for an asset much to the delight of Sarah for being proven right.”

    As I have mentioned before. Sarah is calling/hoping/wanting more time every episode. Season 3 was moving too quickly for Sarah’s character, so this may also go to explain things. Season 3 was just too complex in terms of the emotional strain on Sarah.

    The writers threw too much at Sarah, and by stealing screen time for Hannah I often feel that the transition from ‘seeing the vault speech’ to ‘interrupting Chuck and Morgan and telling him she loved him’ was way too quick.

    If Hannah wasn’t around, I am sure more screen time could have used to serve-up a better relationship between Sarah and (a now changing) Casey could have flourished to keep story line consistency and explain Season 3 Part 2.

    Otherwise it’s like arriving at your destination without having to take the journey. Not too bad if you watch it every week, but if you watch it one after another (binge viewing) it is a bit odd.

    • @Sean,

      and that is what I am talking about. I blame Sarah in this episode for not remember the job, but rather she took it personally. As I mentioned in First Class and now in Nacho Sampler. Sarah began to feel like she was place on the sidelines. The writers took Sarah and said your not playing this season. We want to try this new toy. The focus was to make Chuck into the superspy. The weapon they dreamed of as Beckman would say later in the season.

      But how could it be accomplished with Sarah in the way. After Predator and Broken Heart they knew Sarah was loyal to Chuck, and how does one break that bond send Shaw in to disrupt the chemistry between the two. Hannah destroyed Sarah’s soul, but before we get into that let’s save that for Fake name write up.

    • I agree with Sean about the arc….it moved too quickly for Sarah’s actions to be understood. Jeez…she took everything Chuck did personally in Season 3. And I hated that Casey was left out in the wings … he should have done a, “Smarten up !” speech to Sarah at some point. After all, he seemed attuned to what Chuck was going through and he was the one to help him out. He was a major shipper of Charah, so it’s unlikely that he enjoyed watching Chuck suffer.

      The other problem is that the season seemed intent on Shaw’s intrusion into Chuck and Sarah’s life ( & he didn’t just disrupt their chemistry….he fundamentally broke every bond they shared), but spent so much time on the Sarah and Shaw romance that we never really got any insight on his real intentions with Chuck. Yeah, Hannah ruined Chuck’s character, and Sarah sleeping with Shaw ( with no real idea why) ruined the ideal that was Season 1 & 2 Sarah. By both protracting the sexual relationship AND having her never tweak to being used by Shaw, she also loses the ideal of being the “CIA’s best agent”, thus diminishing her even more. I don’t know why the writers did this to Sarah, without giving her some “time” to help explain her actions.

      Anyway, Chris….just giving you some things to think about before you get to the episodes that basically doomed the series !! 😉

      Final note on this,
      “Sam wasn’t her name it was a code name for what we will never know. All we know her real name could be was Jenny Burton. Her father’s name was Jack Burton. Where Sam came from doesn’t fit”

      Well, when Langston Graham found her in San Diego, her name was Jenny Burton, and her father’s name was Jack Burton. But he also listed off a few other aliases she had in other cities before she was Jenny. It doesn’t always make a lot of sense since both her mother and father call her Sarah, but I digress. Her birth name could be Sam, and Jenny and Jack Burton were most likely aliases while they were pulling a scam in San Diego. When you are always pulling off cons, I doubt very much that Jack was doing it with his real name.

      • The other thing about Sarah is we never had that fountain of truth experience. They won’t have the Heart to Heart talk until Tic Tac, and I stand by my stance on communication. Once they were able to start to talk about there feelings. They were like lost puppies looking for home.

        Chuck spiraled after Hannah break up, and how Chuck did that was such an a$$hole move. I think the season would of done better with Just Shaw apart of it. Hannah was just bad for business….

      • “Anyway, Chris….just giving you some things to think about before you get to the episodes that basically doomed the series !! ;-)”

        Echoed:

        Sarah name is not Sam.
        This was the fake name, remember Sarah told Chuck how to drop something personal in order to gain the trust of the mark; it also stopped Shaw from calling her Sarah – which she reserved for Chuck & Family. Casey called her Walker.

        Sarah’s name probably isn’t important otherwise it would give her mother away. So Burton was the known alias of her father when he was arrested. So no, her surname is not Burton.

        Chuck calls her Sarah.
        Sarah Lisa Walker was on her pre-nuptial agreement, so Sarah Lisa Walker is her name.

        Just have to say:
        “Hannah was just bad for business….”

        Hannah was a WMD (a dirty bomb) and yes, it exploded, the fallout was massive. Hannah was more powerful than Shaw and far more powerful than Mr V in the next season. Hannah was more powerful than Fulcrum and made the Ring look like Part-Timers.

        I can picture the ‘fall of Sergeant Elias’ in the movie ‘Platoon’ when Hannah turns up.

      • Sean,
        “Sarah name is not Sam.
        This was the fake name, remember Sarah told Chuck how to drop something personal in order to gain the trust of the mark; it also stopped Shaw from calling her Sarah – which she reserved for Chuck & Family. Casey called her Walker.”

        I try seeing this, but I just don’t come away with the feeling Sarah is playing Shaw…. if she did, she did a piss poor job of it. I think she was at her most vulnerable at that point in time…Chuck slept with Hannah, she slept with Shaw….and then she goes to Chuck’s apartment and it all hits her like a ton of bricks. She no longer knows who she is … she’s lost Chuck and Chuck has lost her, so she’s adrift. She really just needs to throw out an anchor…she has to latch onto something or someone. Since she’s already been intimate with Shaw physically, she now latches on emotionally as well. After all, he’s been her knight in shining armor, and they’ve both fallen in love with spies and lost them. So I’m leaning towards Sam being her name.

      • “don’t come away with the feeling Sarah is playing Shaw”

        Agreed, it was a crap job supposedly from a world-class spy. However, when Chuck interrupts, we never saw how the scene could have played out. Remember, Sarah went to see Shaw and told him to get dressed before she carried on talking. She went to talk about Chuck. The fact that she went to talk about Chuck is very important.

        Sarah is screwed up. The writers did that as we agreed a little while ago; but I do think you guys are hung up on sex. Women can have sex and not get emotionally connected – women get emotionally connected through other activities, not intercourse (otherwise prostitutes would stand no chance). men get connected through the physical activity of sex, not women. And if you were correct, then every guy Sarah ever slept with for her job would send her spiralling.

        Sarah is not a goody goody. She is not whiter than white (as some keep reminding me) so I think she can handle herself with Shaw in a physical relationship. It is just sex.

        “he’s been her knight in shining armor”

        Not necessarily, Sarah will show a sign of irritation when Chuck says this. Chuck is her hero and she has said it throughout the series up and beyond this point. Remember, heroes come in different shapes and sizes – she fell for the guy who saved a ballerina, who loves his family and thinks that the rights of the people he loves is worth more than a government. Casey said it with the use of the latin – ‘semper fi’.

        I firmly believe that Sarah set out to discover more about Shaw by jumping in bed with him. To save Chuck, but due to the issues surround season 3 and that so much was thrown at Sarah by Chuck, Shaw and everyone else. Sarah fell apart and lost her way.

        The path to hell is littered with good intentions and I believe Sarah had good intentions. Agent Walker is no saint, not by a mile, but she was seeking salvation for the inner Sarah Walker through Chuck.

        And we will discover, to a spy, a meaning is only implied by the person you are interacting with – and as Chuck gave the name Sarah real meaning, she remained Sarah. For that reason, Sam was not her name because that name had no meaning at all.

      • Sean,
        ” Women can have sex and not get emotionally connected – women get emotionally connected through other activities, not intercourse (otherwise prostitutes would stand no chance). men get connected through the physical activity of sex, not women. ”

        Then a lot of men would also be connected to the prostitutes they sleep with !! 😉

        But women tend to get connected before having sex… think of it from an evolutionary standpoint. A female has to know their mate is worthy if they’re going to have sex with them, since the consequences of sex is progeny… and only one at a time. Men don’t care, because they can mate with multiple partners and have multiple progeny. Society has changed that slightly, but that is the innate drive…you have to consciously change it to do otherwise.

        But I’m not saying the sex was, at first, important to Sarah. As a matter of fact, once she slept with Shaw, she was willing to brush him aside as a partner by telling him, ” I need to stop mixing my personal and professional life.” More or less, she told him that that one time was all he was getting, and they were going back to being pieces of a spy team, so focus on the mission instead of trying to eat more of her “desserts”. But then Chuck came into Castle all giddy about sleeping with Hannah, and then she watched Hannah eat at her table. So that purely physical act from the night before drew her closer to Shaw … intimacy is intimacy. Add to the fact that Shaw had connected with her with the story of both of them falling in love with spies, and Sarah drifted right to him when she needed an anchor.

        As for her name being Sarah, you are absolutely correct. She may have even been born “Sam”, but in her heart, she would always be Sarah Lisa, because that is all Chuck ever knew her by.

      • “Then a lot of men would also be connected to the prostitutes they sleep with !! ”

        Keep it in context chaps. Sarah is a spy.

        “As a matter of fact, once she slept with Shaw, she was willing to brush him aside as a partner by telling him”

        I really don’t think we need to worry about Sarah and sex. In the modern sense they call it colleagues with privileges.

        Chuck valued it more than Sarah ever did.

        “intimacy is intimacy”

        Not really. Not for everyone and every time.
        Intimacy is a personal thing – measured from person to person.

        There are many guys who brag how many women they have been intimate with, I doubt they remember every occasion. Same with the women folk who do it as well.

        It’s like saying a prostitute thinks of sex in the same way as any other women around.

        The sex thing is not really important to the Spy team.
        Remember they are spies – not every day folk.

  4. @G

    I know what you are saying, but in the context of murderous assassins working for the CIA, I think different rules apply.

    • Sure…most of the time, but this was a different situation. Chuck seemed to be moving on with another woman, she just had a brush with death, and she had a willing and able partner. Every time Sarah sleeps with someone, it doesn’t have to be an assignment or insinuating yourself into an asset’s life. Sometimes sex can be just a physical release to clear away emotions….just like when she gets going on the heavy bag. Sure…friends with benefits, an office fling, whatever …she can also have sex with Shaw because he is her type, or she’s physically attracted to him. It doesn’t HAVE to be meaningless, and it was probably something Sarah needed. What made it more was Sarah watching Hannah at “her” dining room table. Now that physical intimacy ( and how much more physically intimate can you get than with sex) could then be used as a conduit to provide some emotional intimacy. Please keep this in context …Shaw was close at hand, and was also her latest sexual partner… he saw her almost every day. Why wouldn’t she latch onto him emotionally ? …there was certainly a LOT of attraction there.

      And you are correct, Chuck did value it more than Sarah did, as you can tell by the ease with which Sarah blew Shaw off at the cafe, but Chuck had a meltdown ending it with Hannah. A lot of people get upset with Chuck ending it with Hannah, but what was he to do? Lead her on for a few more days, and then end it ? Noble, perhaps, but it wasn’t going to make it hurt for Hannah any less. This is very much like a Bandaid…..do you pull it off fast or slow? It hurts both ways. What Chuck figured out was that he shouldn’t have cut himself in the first place, then you don’t have to worry about the Bandaid. He was very much, closing the barn door after the horse had already got out.

      • As we agree, Chuck handles it very differently.

        “It doesn’t HAVE to be meaningless”

        I can be meaningless. Who knows?

        There was so little dialogue between the main protagonists that any one could have an opinion about it.

        Sarah is no white swan, she has a history, and being honest, most women of a particular calibre have guys queuing round the corner – so unless Chuck is on top game every day, he is bound to drop the ball.

        What about if I said:
        Maybe people are actually wanting the Sarah and Shaw affair to mean something so it can be explained away?

        Otherwise, the only argument is that Sarah slept with Shaw to get back at Chuck. Which means the show has no where else to go – Sarah never really apologised for it did she?

        Chuck was an idiot and he only has himself to blame.
        (technically it was the writers at fault, but you know what I mean)

        Chuck also had a habit of only going after women who were after him. so he wasn’t really stretching himself Hannah. Chuck took the easy option and similarly, Sarah hit out on the first guy who could effectively ‘get one over on Chuck’

        Remember the ‘purple nightie’ scene and the ‘prostitute scene’, Sarah was not backward at coming forward when she wanted to show what you were missing.

        The argument while kitting themselves out at the museum probably explained it more than anything else (perfume on your shirt scene).

        However, and based on the way Sarah saw this episode, I still think you are reading too much into it. If it was so meaningful to Sarah, she would have acted differently at the restaurant when a surprise phone call asked for Shaw; she would have been at the hospital for Shaw when he was unconscious; she would not be packing to leave with Chuck; she would have acted differently at the red test; she would not feel uncomfortable with him sitting in the car driving to the warehouse.

        I stick to my treatment of this saga. If it happened, and let’s assume it did (it could have been a night of excessive cuddling, who knows), it was just a one night stand – but as you can see, Shaw took it more seriously than Sarah. So maybe Sarah was playing him 🙂

        In typical situations you are probably right (sex makes a bond however short lived), but in this one, given who the individuals are, I think (if we are to believe they spent the night together) the sex was just sex and nothing else (although Shaw seemed to fall under her spell for a while).

        Agree to disagree I think.

        Remember:
        People have one night stands.
        People have affairs.
        People have office party sex.
        People get drunk and have sex.
        People do some very strange things at times and they do not always carry an emotional burden, commitment or even a second thought about what happened.
        Maybe they were just bored?
        Maybe they were just happy not to be dead?

        Or more than likely, Sarah was getting her own back on Chuck.

        The writers just wanted to spruce things up a bit and tear a few layers off Sarah’s character to make her look more feeble or vengeful or something …

        Remove Sarah’s halo and make her look fallible. What ever way you look at it, it could only really happen on TV.

        But really, I do think we are over-thinking this piece of the puzzle with all the other screw-ups in this season.

        Look at Homeland for example, another female CIA agent who could happily sleep around. It’s the genre, it happens, but it means nothing to spies.

      • LOL…I keep thinking we’re saying the same thing, only different !!! It was meaningless, only until she used it as a conduit to attach herself emotionally to Shaw. And, yeah…Shaw was smitten !!(Who wouldn’t be !)

        “Sarah never really apologised for it did she?”

        Did she ever apologize for anything ? Hell…she never even apologized for underestimating his ability to NOT change ! We had 12 episodes of Sarah imagining the worse about Chuck becoming a spy, putting him and everyone around her through hell ( Yes …Chuck screwed up too !), and in episode 13, without any apology for all that she had done to poison the relationship, she shrugs her shoulders and says…”Hey….You didn’t change after all.” Carry on.

        Great freaking writing…….

      • One final thought on this subject:

        In beefcake it was obvious that Sarah was looking for a physical engagement of some description. From the hotel bar to those moments in Castle where she would say it is wrong to cheat on a cover boyfriend.

        The saving grace for Chuck was that Beefcake (MI6 agent) was a gentleman and did not pursue Sarah to the nth degree – unlike Shaw.

        So yes, it can be argued that Sarah wanted some real intimacy but she would not cheat on Chuck; as they were still boyfriend/girlfriend.

        In comes Hannah.

        Sarah nows sees or perceives that Chuck has moved on and forgotten about her (perfume on t-shirt argument at the museum). Thus the spiral in fake name and related episodes. Sarah is in meltdown: having waited all these years, Chuck just moves on with Hannah without even making a final play for Sarah. So why should Sarah hang around; she has been dumped.

        Hannah provides Sarah with the reason as to why she can move. Hannah justifies the reason why Sarah turns away from Chuck. Chuck burns the bridge and there is no way back. It is made even worse because Hannah is a civilian.

        Sarah now realises that Chuck does not want me anymore etc .. etc …

        Sarah wants something real and she knows that Shaw can provide that escape – thus she re-affirms a connection with Shaw in Castle. Sarah knows that Shaw will say yes because she knows the type.

        (Also, the fact that Shaw was married gave her some added motivation and interest. Who knows, we will never know.)

        So in Sarah’s mind to have a an affair with Shaw was not cheating on him; Chuck broke the rules of the fake relationship, Hannah was a personal attack against Sarah.

        Especially after the Hannah dinner scene. All bets were now off and the show chemistry was finished.

        Chuck dropped the ball; or should I say the writers introducing Hannah allowed this to happen.

        Now, if Chuck played the game. At this point, just after Shaw made his first move by kissing Sarah’s neck, Chuck could have done something about it. Sarah was looking for him, but Chuck was looking in a different direction. In fact, I would go so far as to say that Chuck had retired on the notion of having a relationship with Sarah.

        So the big error was that Chuck and Sarah never had sex in Season 2. The relationship needed some cement, something to work on rather than just romantic notions. Hell, if Sarah had a one-night stop over at Prague before the disaster that happened it may have been different (also because Chuck would have time to explain things). This could have averted the entire disaster of season 3 up to Paris.

        On a final note:
        In Season 1-3.5 Sarah does not apologise because she is always reacting to Chuck. So why should she apologise. Everything is Chuck’s idea and all about what Chuck wants.

        However, from Season 3.5 and onwards we do see Sarah becoming more apologetic. She even notices how often she does not express her feelings and she becomes ‘normal’.

        For this reason, I always liked ‘Chuck versus the pre-nup’. It was the most real either of them had ever been about the ridiculous nature of a spy relationship; but then again. I do like Seasons 1,2 and 4 (and season 5 up to the baby episode for obvious reasons). Season 3.5 was good (American hero onwards), but it wasn’t long enough (I still had the bad taste of Hannah), it took too long to get to Paris.

        Chuck at the beginning of Season 3 is a prime example of how not to act when you are treading water with the girl of your dreams.

      • @Sean

        I think Gary is right here, it was a rebound relationship with Shaw. We have to remember when Chuck broke up with Hannah, which was the right thing to do, but IMO the timing was wrong. If you are a good guy like we know CB is than sending Hannah back to the table where her parents are detached was something I couldn’t do. I would played nice eat dinner and all, and than pull the plug. While we know Hannah was the bad part of the story. She didn’t deserve to be let go that way.

        No one does. To be fair, I can’t say Chuck did the right thing in Prague by saying Chuck screwed up there, and say this isn’t a screw up too. It’s def. not a W.W.C.D moment.

        As far as Sarah goes through this arc, I always have felt the writers didn’t like the face the romance overshadowed the spy story. Chris Fedak wanted to tell a story about a man who was sent an Intersect and with the protection of two handlers goes from being an underachiever to becoming a superspy.

        Bryce, Sarah, Shaw and Casey all had the choice to become a spy. Chuck didn’t and he is the American Hero, but Sarah also grew to love a man she envisioned was the best comfort for her. It’s what she was use to and most human beings can’t hand change. Guys, Chuck needed to change. The series wouldn’t of last long if we kept seeing the same thing. Chuck being protected, but set up to be the hero. He needed to become a spy. I don’t even call Sarah the prize because she was more than that. She was his inspiration. She saved him from his funk he was in.

        As I said before, Sarah wasn’t going to leave her family (CIA) and any good man would leave the comfort of his life to live with his wife’s family. It’s the right thing to do. However, Sarah didn’t want it and should of told him, but what story could be told over the course of 19 weeks if the story was resolved in one episode.

      • to finish my thought on Chuck breaking up with Hannah,

        Sarah didn’t know he did that and furthermore, Chuck didn’t know Sarah succumb to Shaw’s advances. After all, Chuck’s happiness still matter to Sarah despite her own happiness. It’s like Cole said, She forgot what was most important which was herself. When Sarah continued her relationship with Shaw. I felt it was about time because Chuck kept doing the same thing without recourse. I know I keep beating this drum, but lets go over it again.

        1. Chuck fakes breaks up with Sarah moves on to Lou, Sarah showed her feelings by kissing him only to find out Bryce was still alive. They kiss didn’t get talked about until Crown Vic, but Sarah still stayed in Burbank.

        2. Chuck fake breaks up with Sarah again only to relive his past with Jill. He flaunts it in Sarah’s face the whole time kissing on the stage and taking off the watch. Sarah kisses Cole, but again elected to stay in Burbank because she isn’t the kind of girl who cheats on her cover boyfriend.

        3. When she gets fired by the CIA she is still helping Chuck by searching for his dad, and she also took a long time to leave almost hesitating. She goes on the Lam with Chuck and again risks prison time to help Chuck.

        4. Chuck fake breaks up with Sarah again right before Beefcake shows up and her body language in Orange Orange speaks of getting tired of hearing this.

        5. Chuck breaks up again with Sarah in Prague because he wanted to become a spy, which is fine but Hannah came around and again Chuck seeked to replace Sarah.

        With all that said Sarah still resisted Shaw’s charms and if we are to believe Shaw and Sarah slept together in the Mask than we also have to note Chuck did as well, but its not fair to Sarah to end things with Shaw because Chuck says I am single Sarah come back to me. Life doesn’t work that way. She saw another woman eating dinner in her home and eating the meal she prepared. It was about time for Sarah to think for herself.

      • “rebound relationship”

        In one sense yes, but in the sense of the show – NO.
        Reason, because Sarah and Chuck had not really broken up.

        They were playing stalemate yes, but neither of them were showing signs of wanting to break up. This is why Hannah is such a shock and this is why Shaw was such a shock.

        Both Sarah and Chuck were confronted with another possible affair and they both caved in on the first hurdle. They did not struggle with, they did not talk about it, they just accepted the first offer of ‘jump in bed and have sex’ that came along.

        Which really ruins everything in Season 1 and 2, showing that neither of them had a strength of feeling towards each other that would stand any test, never mind some flirting with a guest character.

        They were acting like teenagers, not adults, and certainly not spies who do important life and death jobs.

        “Sarah didn’t know he did that and furthermore, ”

        By that time the damage was done.
        Chuck took Hannah to his house fully knowing that Sarah could be watching. It clearly shows either [1] no respect for Sarah or [2] he never understood her.

        “Chuck’s happiness still matter to Sarah despite her own happiness.”
        Yes, Sarah could forgive him for the sex part. But the dinner table was just too much and why didn’t Chuck take her somewhere else – like a restaurant and her house.

        “I felt it was about time because Chuck kept doing the same thing without recourse. ”

        Agreed

        ” I know I keep beating this drum, but lets go over it again.”

        We love it really 🙂

        “Sarah kisses Cole”
        Bryce kissed Sarah & Cole kissed Sarah.
        But she did not say no.

        “She saw another woman eating dinner in her home and eating the meal she prepared. It was about time for Sarah to think for herself.”

        Agreed. If this scene never happened or the cameras failed.
        Then all would be well in the world of Chuck.

        Whoever wrote this scene should be shot. Whatever director allowed it to happen should be burned at the stake.

        Simple really …. take out the dinner scene with Hannah.
        Chuck fixed.

      • The Dinner scene was rough. Good take on it. I still feel bad for Sarah. Its like what did she do that warranted such cruelty except love Chuck.

        Why the need for punishing her for it. This is why this scene sends Prague to the back burner. It’s not fair for the writers to do such a crime.

      • @Sean

        To play devil’s advocate, what did Hannah do that was so terrible. She didn’t have a job anymore. Chuck invited her to Burbank on the plane when he said if she ever found herself in Burbank he would get a job for her. Hannah did what he asked.

        But like Shaw, I can’t blame Hannah for acting on her attraction. Chuck and Sarah are grown adults. If they felt they needed a release of some sort. It’s up to them to say, hey know what this isn’t right instead of blaming Hannah or Shaw.

        But, Chuck and Sarah weren’t in a relationship then. The relationship was put on hold once he downloaded the 2.0. They never had special moments other than Sarah coming home or the conversation with the woodcombs.

        Its really all just a mess they had to clean up., which they will but as I believe if you love someone set them free. If they come back they are yours. At least this was the final hurdle until S5

      • “what did Hannah do that was so terrible”

        Ruin Season 3.

        “Chuck invited her to Burbank on the plane when he said if she ever found herself in Burbank he would get a job for her. Hannah did what he asked.”

        No way.
        Chuck is not the hiring manager and if I remember, Buy More was consolidating rather than investing.

        Hannah said the only reason she went to work at Buy More was because of Chuck. Chuck was being an idiot; she was all over him on the plane. Being a super spy he should have spotted that and said no to her.

        “I can’t blame Hannah for acting on her attraction”
        She didn’t act on it, she pursued him like a stalker would.
        Which, given Chuck’s love of being a spy (if we can believe it) should have raised alarm bells – stay clear of stalkers (it was an ongoing joke throughout the series)

        “Chuck and Sarah weren’t in a relationship then”
        Yes they were. They were on an understanding.
        It is still a relationship.

        “They never had special moments other than Sarah coming home or the conversation with the woodcombs.”

        I am sure they did, look at all the footage Jeff had for the wedding video.

        “if you love someone set them free”
        But neither of them could deal with the possibility of loss and nor could the show. The TV series could not be so daring otherwise there would be no show.

        As Volkov said, if you are going to threaten someone, then threaten them and mean it – Chuck and Sarah breaking up could not be gambled with, otherwise it would have ended at Season 2.

      • “She didn’t deserve to be let go that way.”

        Why not. Hannah just strolled in after meeting him on a plane and threw herself at him. As a fisherman told me, if you cast a net you are hoping to find fish – but sometimes you get plastic bags and whatever else has been dumped in the sea.

        So Hannah got some bad news. It happens, and just because she is a woman who cares. This kind of thing happens to guys all the time.

        All is fair in love and war.

        “As far as Sarah goes through this arc, I always have felt the writers didn’t like the face the romance overshadowed the spy story.”

        Probably right, but as we agree, that is no excuse to sink the ship.

        Golly, they had a lot of screen time to play with and better team work between the 3 main characters would have sufficed to finish off the Prague story better – finally leading to Paris.

        “Chris Fedak wanted to tell a story about a man who was sent an Intersect and with the protection of two handlers goes from being an underachiever to becoming a superspy.”

        CF had plenty of scope and plenty of time to tell his story but he handled it badly. I agree, he should have stuck with the Spy story than bringing in some girl off a flight to Paris. Ridiculous. Hannah could have been a better character with more depth and not been a romantic nuisance to Chuck and Sarah. They could have attached her to Casey or even Morgan (who showed willing).

        “Bryce, Sarah, Shaw and Casey all had the choice to become a spy. Chuck didn’t and he is the American Hero”

        Totally agree

        “He needed to become a spy.”

        Yes, but he didn’t need to go to bed with Hannah to do it.

        “I don’t even call Sarah the prize because she was more than that. She was his inspiration. She saved him from his funk he was in.”

        The prize was unleashing Sarah Walker from Agent Walker and setting her free – thus we have Paris.

        “As I said before, Sarah wasn’t going to leave her family (CIA) and any good man would leave the comfort of his life to live with his wife’s family. It’s the right thing to do. However, Sarah didn’t want it and should of told him, but what story could be told over the course of 19 weeks if the story was resolved in one episode.”

        Exactly, spot on. That should have been the story.

        Chuck and Sarah working it out. Sarah not wanting to leave the spy-hood and Chuck dealing with it. After all, Sarah had the better job. I dream to be a house husband lol. It would have shown better progression from Prague and allowed Casey to do his thing.

        The answer was all quite simple really and it would have kept the spy stories at the top of the page. Moreover, the viewers would have liked it and it would have made sense of the Season 3 finale.

      • OK…so that’s what I was trying to say….you just seemed to say it SO much better !!!

        Remember, Sarah said to Shaw ( as they were “dying” from the poisonous gas) that she enjoyed the attention and the little kiss. Sometimes, Sarah may just act like a “normal” girl !!!

        Even though Sarah did not act on the kiss in Beefcake, it was still a kiss. Chuck did not really act on the kiss in the museum, because he went to “rescue” Sarah from the impending disaster when he flashed on the bad guys ( and, of course, Hannah saw Sarah at the museum.) A few things had to transpire before Chuck decided to fully take Hannah up on her offer. He was dead wrong about it ( like you say, lack of effort, etc. etc.), but it was also the misconception that Sarah had moved on to Shaw. Thus the coincidental misconception that Chuck had moved on with Hannah. So they both spiralled to another partner from the misconception that the other one had moved on first. Chuck got to explain his “actions” in the Beard… ( he didn’t even know why he did what he did until Morgan snapped him back into reality ). Sarah, of course, never did. Thus the viewers left in droves, and the remaining viewers explain away Sarah’s actions with either 1) – she was devastated in Prague, or 2) she was getting even with Chuck for sleeping with Hannah. Neither one is adequate if you are really paying attention….they’re too simplistic.

        Because the very complex storyline was told in too much of a hurry ( due to all that transpired in the Chuck community, no doubt), we don’t really get a good explanation for things either. But just like Chuck’s breakup with Hannah, they were closing the barn door after the horses had escaped…they never should have gone down the road of alternative love interests. They were warned it would ruin the heart of the show…and it did. They wrapped it up as quick as they could without giving the viewers any idea what actually happened or why. And, to rub it in further ( no doubt Fedak was miffed with the audience response to his cherished storyline ), they revisit Sarah’s affair in Living Dead and Subway ( to a lesser extent).

      • Hi Gary.

        “they revisit Sarah’s affair in Living Dead and Subway ( to a lesser extent).”

        You lost me. What’s is that your referencing? Any links?
        I’m all ears, never heard of Living Dead or Subway before.

      • “Even though Sarah did not act on the kiss in Beefcake, it was still a kiss. ”

        Well, technically, like the Bryce kiss – both just arrived on her lips. Sarah did not say no, but I don’t think she completely encouraged it. Both guys just took a chance to see what would happen.

        Can’t blame them really – you gotta ask or you never know.

        But I don’t think Sarah initiated it.

      • Hey Sean…just referring to the Casey interrogation of Sarah to find Shaw in Chuck Vs. the Living Dead ( we have to sit through the very awkward recounting of Sarah and Shaw’s romance), and then Orion talking about Chuck’s girlfriend’s ex-lover in Chuck Vs. The Subway. Fedak was rubbing in the romance.

        And, Chris, yes Sarah deserved a little “me time” after all she had been through. But you’re still approaching it as a tit for tat …. that’s not very mature, and probably much too simplistic.

      • I am not talking tit for tat, I am talking as human being. How much can one take before moving on for good?

        You know very well as you have said in the past. This would of been the end game for most relationships except Chuck and Sarah were soul mates. They venture off for a bit but soon return to each other.

      • “You know very well as you have said in the past. This would of been the end game for most relationships except Chuck and Sarah were soul mates. They venture off for a bit but soon return to each other.”

        Soulmates or not. It was the CIA and the intersect project that kept them together. Even soulmates would have departed at this juncture with Hannah and Shaw.

        The soulmates would never find happiness but they would have drifted apart if it wasn’t for the spy stuff.

        And this is the safety net the writers had.

        We can do what we want to Chuck and Sarah because the intersect project will keep them working face to face. And this is why it is a TV show and not real. The writers departed from real life at this point.

        In real life Hannah and Shaw would have burned the main protagonists so much that something REAL would need to happen. Such as:

        1. Chuck blows his top and has a big show down, bringing all his feelings to the surface regardless of the cost. Chuck was the intersect so he could push the boundaries.

        2. Chuck and Sarah begin to meet off-grid. Chuck did this frequently with other women. Why not Sarah. Chuck could have been doing this well before the arrival of Shaw. This would have been so easy to do

        3. Chuck and Sarah get car trouble coming back from an operation. It is amazing how walking 30 miles and talking can solve problems.

        4. Sarah blows her top and starts to flood her emotions on Chuck in a face to face and throws an ultimatum. This could have happened any time after both Sarah and Casey thought he died in a car – they lost capital on that scene with Sarah. She was upset and then it was like it never happened.

        5. Sarah leaves or goes AWOL forcing Chuck to go and find her.

        6. The easiest way out for the writers would be for Chuck to call a strike and disappear. Forcing Sarah to go look for him. Time to hit that beach again methinks. At that point they could have made the Paris moment a lot quicker.

        7. Shaw’s threat to blow-up Castle with Chuck and Morgan inside could have been a catalyst to Sarah going all terminator on Shaw and proving how she felt.

        There are many more and I am sure you guys can think of some.

        We need to remember, all these characters are supposed to be world-class spies and none of them saw what was happening until it was too late. So any of the above would have been ‘real’. Those scenarios happen all the time.

      • @Sean

        Chuck did invite Hannah to Burbank, he said ” Hannah I don’t know if you ever find yourself in Burbank, but if you do my manager owes me tons of favors.” It sounds like a invite to me. Hannah only did what Chuck suggested.

        I agree it is a gamble and it didn’t pay off because they already had a trapezoid with Bryce/Jill/Chuck and Sarah. As I mentioned. Those four have a more of a trapezoid then in S3 because jill worked with them on a professional level.

        I think if they just kept it A triangle it would of served better Shaw isn’t the problem after all he was packaged for 12 episodes. Now that being said, Shaw’s character was done in S3 Quinn should of been the bad guy for S5 such a wasted character

      • “Chuck did invite Hannah to Burbank, he said ” Hannah I don’t know if you ever find yourself in Burbank”

        I know he did, but as a world class spy he should have noticed that Hannah was dangerous. Chuck at this stage should be able to spot a stalker when he sees one.

        “Hannah only did what Chuck suggested.”

        Hannah was a stalker, of course she would. Remember, never invite a vampire in your house.

        If Hannah was not around, Shaw would have found it harder to get close to Sarah; and that is why Hannah existed. To give the writers an excuse to put an ocean between Chuck and Sarah.

      • but you see Chuck isn’t a spy, he is a hero. I try to explain the difference, but a spy is Carina, Shaw, Bryce Sarah.

        Chuck didn’t think like a spy, he was more of a matter of fact guy. He always second guessed orders and thought himself as spy, but the rest of the world didn’t. Including me.

        He was good at does it make him a top notch spy I don’t think handing over the omen virus 5 years into the job as great spy work. He should of know there was good chance Ellie and Devon were dead so take your chances.

        I see Chuck as a hero with a spy girlfriend. thats all as agent rye said. He constantly called for Sarah any time he was in trouble.Even as 2.0 Spy no Hero yes.

      • “but you see Chuck isn’t a spy, he is a hero.”

        The point is, Prague happened because he wanted to be a spy.
        So based on that, he had to start acting like one. Being a spy involves a lot more than simply running around with a tranq gun and flashing.

        Even Sarah told him that.

        You cannot want to be a spy and not act like one.

        Good job Chuck wasn’t training to be a doctor.

        “Chuck didn’t think like a spy, he was more of a matter of fact guy. He always second guessed orders and thought himself as spy, but the rest of the world didn’t. Including me.”

        And for that reason alone, Chuck should never have attempted it. The writers knew his character was not ready for it.

        And Sarah was right, he was not a spy.

        “I see Chuck as a hero with a spy girlfriend. thats all as agent rye said.”

        But that does not fit with Fedak’s desire to make him a spy.
        If Fedak wanted him to be a spy, he should have allowed his character to grow. If Fedak wanted him to remain a super hero he should not have hit him with Shaw or Hannah.

      • They were not actively hiring staff either. They had on-going sales issues. Consolidation takes many forms – work with what you have until the profits rise.

      • Not really.

        Trouble hit Buy More in the later half of season 3.
        So the trouble began at the beginning of season 3.

        Pure economics really. You don’t wait for trouble, you hedge it off before it starts.

  5. Chris,
    “He was good at does it make him a top notch spy I don’t think handing over the omen virus 5 years into the job as great spy work. He should of know there was good chance Ellie and Devon were dead so take your chances.”

    Don’t want to get too “off topic” here…but REALLY???? You think Chuck would EVER be involved in a mission and go completely emotionless when it comes to his family or friends? You think Chuck wouldn’t do anything he could to protect them / rescue them..even if the possibility of success was slim ?? What do you think the show is about ?? Chuck becomes a “spy”, but not in the Sarah / Bryce / Casey mould ….he is a different type of spy…and that’s why Sarah is still with him.

    As I recall, the whole omen virus thing worked out pretty good. And Ellie and Devon were still alive…so why the big problem ??? It can’t be that he didn’t trust Sarah, he didn’t want her involved…he didn’t want her to get in trouble …… and she was pissed about it !!! LOL

    • Gary,

      Bryce said it best, You have to think like the enemy. Its how spies survive. The omen virus was released giving Shaw a chance to escape. Great Spy work indeed.

      I think back to what Jack Bauer said to Renee Walker when he first met her. “There is no negotiating with terrorists.” Bryce knew this so did Casey. It only proved 5 years later Chuck didn’t understand the enemy and how they worked. Bad people don’t care about Chuck’s feelings

      .

  6. “Sarah appearance made both men do a double take.”
    With a Battlestar Galactica reference I think she was dressing for Chuck. Again showing him what he was missing. Sarah has done this before.

    “Sarah playing a cover made Manoosh think they slept together”
    Based on what we have said, not digging up old graves but this is just a quote worth thinking about …

    • I got that too.

      Especially in the mission prep scene. Sarah was loving the memory about meeting Chuck back in the pilot. She was smiling and showed the love in her eyes again. It also proved the love was still there. All she wanted was to remember that guy not this one

      • If you guys notice Sarah’s outfits were always sexy and by that I mean like a girlfriend dressing for her boyfriend.

        Just look as the dresses sexy level goes up so does Chuck and Sarah’s relationship

      • “Just look as the dresses sexy level goes up so does Chuck and Sarah’s relationship”

        You are right. Maybe Sarah was throwing a hint – Chuck, take me off-grid and I am yours. Again, Chuck missed that as well.

        She got more sexy until Paris, then she toned down a little and later on in season 4 she became more ‘Chuck’s Sarah’.

      • Yes, and that is what impressed me about Chuck, and Sarah missed that about Chuck.

        He wasn’t about looks because if he was that shallow he would of been on the phone calling her the second he was home.

        It was Sarah who had to come back to the store to get him to go out with her, but as he learned about her he would become more interested.

        Sarah didn’t pick up on that because it didn’t phase him when she was wearing sexy under garments in The Truth or every time she slept with her in her panties. He almost ran for the hills.

      • “He wasn’t about looks because if he was that shallow he would of been on the phone calling her the second he was home.”

        The first thing he noticed about Sarah was her looks.
        In fact the first thing everyone noticed was her looks.
        All men are that shallow.

        “It was Sarah who had to come back to the store to get him to go out with her, but as he learned about her he would become more interested.”

        Not really. Chuck said he lives on planet earth.

        This is more of a reference to the whole episode being a joke rather than something he took as a possibility.

        She asked him out, and he failed.

        “it didn’t phase him when she was wearing sexy under garments”

        For a man who lined his room with candles …
        The purple nightie phased him.

      • also one note about women,

        They don’t sleep in their underwear or panties unless they are interested in the guy. I know Gary she did it on her missions, but that was work related.

      • No women strips down to underwear if they are not interested.
        And they certainly don’t share the same bed in the hope that an unseen line down the middle of the bed acts as a deterrent to unwanted intrusions.

        Sarah jumping in his bed and striping down to her underwear sent a signal to Chuck in the loudest possible way. Only a ‘dork’ would not have picked up on it; I suspect Homer Simpson would have picked up on it 🙂

  7. I guess the reference was a toughie for Chuck. Hell, she wrote the instruction on her T-Shirt. Chuck was not the brightest of sparks.

      • Which is why I always say Chuck was of a nerd than a hacker.
        Hackers are geeks (big difference between nerd and geek); and geeks don’t miss that sort of thing.

        Maybe that was another aspect of Beefcake – she was getting a bit fed up of sending out all these signals but he never read them; so Shaw measured up as an alternative way of throwing the same signal.

        Chuck never really acted in a jealous way with Shaw, he was too resigned to how life dealt the cards. Which would be frustrating from Sarah’s point of view; so maybe she felt resigned to Chuck never being the physically motivated type.

      • Sarah was never really attracted to the physical side of Chuck, but she always played to the physical side of herself… it was interesting. Chuck certainly looked at Sarah at a deeper level, which may have accounted for Sarah also being attracted to him ( i.e. – the baggage handler line). Like Sean said, Sarah could have a line up around the block if she wanted to. But how many people would be interested in REALLY getting to know her !

      • Which is what she said in her video blog, She said, he is trying to get to know me.It’s kind of sweet.

        Bryce didn’t care about who she was. It’s why I love Chuck. He understands at the end of the day looks fade eventually you need that companionship.

      • My two cents …

        Sarah was not really phased by looks; beautiful people are not always looking for beautiful people. As you both said, they need someone to know there is more to a person other than a physical beauty. Physical attraction works in a lot of people but when they base the relationship on it, it never lasts; because there will always be someone more beautiful around the corner. Live by vanity, die by vanity – the easiest sin to fall foul of; and it generally makes you a very shallow person who finds joy in nothing.

        The biggest issue in people’s lives is fear. A fear of living; doing the right thing; acting the right way; making the right choices; fear of honesty; fear of knowing yourself and a fear of believing that you are alone in this world. If you believe in someone else, you can believe in yourself, if you can truly know someone else, then you can truly understand yourself. That brings happiness – a happiness that cannot be touched or sold. Chuck removed that fear from Sarah; this in turn would become a belief that says, as long as they are together, everything would be OK in the world.

      • Yes,

        and also physical atrraction is just a part of the equation. It shouldn’t be the total package.

        attraction works in many ways. Someone could be attracted to the inner being of someone, which tends to stay the same forever, It’s why Gary made a great point when saying he was always the same Chuck, and Sarah lost her place beside Chuck, which is where she always wanted to be.

        As she will later state, she loved working with him and being with him. Sarah had the best of both worlds. Chuck only saw himself as being with her on a spy level, but never thought he was worth it as a nerd even when they were married

      • “Sarah had the best of both worlds. Chuck only saw himself as being with her on a spy level, but never thought he was worth it as a nerd even when they were married”

        I think that happens in a lot of relationships on a certain level. Especially if one of the pair is seen as very attractive to the world outside. It comes from feeling successful in your pursuit of the right person. You will constantly ask, why in hell did they pick me?

        Again it comes from fear – a fear of not being good enough, and a fear of the future. Once you feel that way do you ever get over it? Probably not, but time allows you to cope with it and to develop some form of self-worth – an understanding that you do bring something to the relationship. Chuck will discover that at the beach in the season 5 finale.

        I believe Chuck’s character understood fear in that respect and that is why Sarah liked him. He had coping mechanism, and enough of it in him that would enable him to deal with the fear for both of them – which is probably why he will not tell her about his intersect illness.

      • Sean,
        “The first thing he noticed about Sarah was her looks.
        In fact the first thing everyone noticed was her looks.”

        Just have to say, (being a cosmetic dentist and also a portrait photographer and retoucher) than Yvonne has to be one of the best at making the whole better than the sum of her parts. This is a girl who looks good on camera, but always felt a little self-conscious about being “gangly”. She has dancer’s legs ( her most attractive natural quality), and beautiful, expressive eyes. Most of her other features are “enhanced” or hidden, depending on how you wish to photograph them. She uses makeup and hair styles to her advantage,especially to accent the eyes. If you saw her in person, you would definitely thing she was borderline anorexic….she is the one with “the hips of a six year old girl”, as Big Mike put it !! The rest is a lot of foam padding and wardrobe….once again, enhancing the good parts to make you not notice the so-so parts.

        Of course, the most beautiful thing about her, from what I’ve seen, is that personality…no one is a better interview than her. She just kinda lights up a room !

      • @G

        It is probably those small imperfections that make her different to the average hollywood actress; but yes, the eyes are the key followed by an open and expressive face; as most Hollywood people tend to hide away from facial expressions so they can keep lines off their face (or botox users). No-one in Hollywood has real teeth, they all look whiter than white so you expect that (it always makes me laugh when some actor plays a hobo or drug addict and their teeth look amazingly perfect).

        Let’s say, Yvonne came across as interesting. We all have imperfections. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder so it is always difficult to say much more. Saying ‘she held your interest’ is probably the best way of saying it – long enough to want to know more.

        However, when you start analysing people, you always have a subconscious tendency to find the bad points to stop you from engaging with that person. To be on TV you need to look a certain way, in fact, to work for some companies you need to look a certain way – its life as we know it.

        Yes make-up and hair helps, so do clothes, soft filters, lighting etc … the list of what happens in pre and post production is massive. But she did put a smile on your face, and whether that is because you liked the character, the acting or just the actress – it’s entertainment, it is mean’t to work that way and give you a little escapism.

      • Which is why Cougars is a special episode in my view. Name an actress that was willing to make herself look like she did in high school.

        It shows you over time people change. Yvonne is not just about looks and I agree her acting ability is what makes me even in awe.

        The best scene for me when it comes to her command of her expressions was the debriefing scene in Hard Salami. I counted 7 different expressions between the time the General and Chuck are talking about the mission.

        She is trying to get Chuck’s attention but in the mean time trying to not get caught by Beckman and Casey. Follow by Chuck saying I don’t want to get my girlfriend involved.

        the expressions were fantastic and tell the story.

      • When i watch actress I don’t need a Truman Show like clone.

        Perfection is only in the eye of the one looking. Yvonne is sexier with her imperfections. My wife often comments about her teeth, but who cares when she can light up like a christmas tree

      • Being a cosmetic dentist for so many years, it was always a chore to get people to want beautiful “natural” smiles, rather than the “Hollywood” smile, which used a lot of whiter than white porcelain. I’d also try to talk them into small imperfections and tooth rotations. Sadly, I lost the battle and ended up with some pretty ghastly smiles that the patient seemed to love !!! LOL Yvonne’s teeth are interesting for a few things. First, she had braces as a kid, but her teeth ended up massively crowded. If I look at her most recent close ups and compare to a few years ago ( especially the photo when she first asks Chuck to run with her in Pink Slip ), it seems she is having some work done….probably Invisalign….in bringing the lateral incisors out to more closely match up the alignment of the two ( massive ) central incisors. She had a very “Bugs Bunny” look to her before. She’ll never be able to make those two front teeth smaller, so she’ll always have a bit of that look, which I think is REALLY sexy !!! Of course, she has beautiful “curtains” as well….those are the lips…full and very symmetrical.

        Her nose is fairly large for a leading lady, but makeup and soft lighting take care of that….as long as it doesn’t cast a shadow, you’d never be able to tell the size. The eyes are enhanced by placing her eyebrows WAY higher …especially towards the outside of her face. Her natural eyebrows probably only touch her pencilled in eyebrows for about 5mm in the inner part of her brow.

        Another thing that’s changed lately is her weight…she’s actually skinnier than she was in Chuck. She’s cut out all her extra sugar intake, so her body will burn fat for fuel. The first things to go are the…well, you know. Luckily, bras now can place foam anywhere to “enhance” !!! LOL They used them a lot in Chuck anyway, but she was slightly larger than she is now.

        It’s amazing how the camera can add weight. I had a friend that was, I thought, pretty darn slim …well built, actually. Nice upper body, a little athletic, and then skinny on the bottom half. When she modeled for catalogues, she got the “frumpier” section of the clothing !!! She looked very average in her clothes…it was really unbelievable. If Yvonne looks skinny on camera, she would have to be just a rail in real life. But that also explains why she gets so many gigs in the fashion world …famous face….model’s body ( sort of).

      • The only problem with burning too much fat (or none if you have none) is that you age prematurely.

        One thing I never understood is why YS clearly disagreed with the low-clothing density scenes on Chuck but then does fashion shoots with very low clothes density and Dexter with no clothes density. Seems an odd thing to protest about and then do it?

        It was obvious YS is very thin, she wouldn’t be on TV is she weighed more than 55 kilograms. Over here that makes her a size 8 but in the USA i believe (please correct me if i am wrong) that makes her a size 6?

        But you need to be able to wear clothes and sorry, the standard female body types do not cut it. Blame the women really, they do it to themselves.

        The key is:
        Women dress to impress other women, they do not do it for the guys. Same with makeup etc … it’s a fallacy they do it for any other reason.

        Weight-wise a person in their early 20s is bound to look different to someone in their early 30s. The same can be said as you ascend the tree of age. The padding in the skin changes as it thins out over time. Hollywood people only exist on camera, so I doubt they spend much time avoiding the cracks in the pavement like we do.

        Teeth-wise I will defer to your experience but there is nothing wrong with her teeth as they were really. I am not a huge hollywood smile fan as they all seem to buy their dentures from the same mould.

        Eyelash-wise. It is just a standard make job there. Very stage orientated, it assists you to see the facial expressions. See that a lot when girls are out and about trying to impress each other.

        I guess it all depends on what roles she is after and this is the hollywood way.

        I was surprised Zac himself did not spend all week in the gym.
        He has certainly bucked the trend in muscle tone (and most of the time that is done to attract the male audience); although he does have a hollywood smile.

      • Yeah… I took exception to her protestation about doing “bra and panty” scenes ( I think they were OK if they were a part of the storyline ), but she does the nude / partially nude / décolletage photos where she has total control over what gets photographed. It comes down to the old “objectification” argument, with many feminists blaming men because they look at woman as sexual objects. Problem is, most researchers agree that it is women who objectify themselves …men don’t force women to dress the way they do and put on tons of makeup. They do it because they feel they are in competition with other women.

        Of course, men take the blame. But I think we can handle it !!

        As for YS….she’s certainly not a glamorous girl off screen. Very natural and fun loving. And just as pretty, IMHO.

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