The Magic Kiss Theory

Whether you believe in a magic kiss or not has no bearing on the subject at hand. The focus here is strictly my opinion on why the theory was not ideal at the point of execution. Fairy tales used the magic kiss as device to wake up the sleeping princess,  It was an illusion that a kiss can fix everything, but after watching the series of Chuck, it would not be feasible to think that would be the case.

The series of Chuck often turned great scenes into a chaotic situation. Whether it would be a first date interrupted by Mr. Colt or a passionate kiss deflated by the return of Bryce. If we are to take these events and create a pattern you will find that, while on the surface the magical kiss would rekindle the love, it would be hard to fathom that the kiss would be the final road to recovery.

The Final Scene of Chuck

The final scene would have been a great scene if there was another episode, It is often the idea of the writers/creators to leave the audience wondering, and Chuck was no different.

The Execution is in question not the kiss
The Execution is in question not the kiss

The kiss is not the problem, and the acting is tremendous, but this notion that the audience is supposed to accept this as a finale goes to show how out of touch the decision makers were with the fans and those that had input on the finale. Many stories follow this technique and some people did enjoy the concept behind it, but as a viewer myself I find it to be unnecessary way to go off the air.

People like closure, when you read a book what is the first thing you say when the story does not end the way you wanted. The initial reaction was shocked because you just wasted several hours reading this great book (Watched 5 years) and we were treated on a journey where the two heroes finally come together. (Only for the writers to be clever) and something way out of left field destroyed the relationship.

Chuck and Sarah was the show of Chuck, and any arguments against did not watch the show. We knew the story was about the spy life, but once we saw Chuck and Sarah having dinner we were hooked. The show would have never lasted one season and because of the strength of the romance the show lasted 5 years. I am under the full believe that the decision makers never liked that fact because it was never the intention of the show.

When you scan the social media all the fans request more Charah Moments. The fact that a kiss was the sendoff was clueless. Most shows get it wrong but some are tolerable, but what is not a cliffhanger.
Seasons 2-4 each had a cliffhanger at the end, which was resolved the next season. The kiss was never concluded. Here are some more scenes from the show’s previous seasons why it does not work.

Kisses of Death

Moments like these are quickly ruined by Chaotic means.
Moments like these are quickly ruined by Chaotic means.

Several times throughout the series Chuck and Sarah would kiss, the kiss would all be for not because of some unforeseen situation. A prime example would be from Chuck vs the Colonel, They have their first intimate moment without fear of being caught by the job and most of all from anyone that would find their relationship would be problematic.

As soon as Chuck realizes he did not have the proper tools for the moment, all chaos breaks loose. Casey and Fulcrum found them. Spoiling a precious moment between the two. Soon after Orion takes out the Intersect from Chuck’s brain.

The explosions in the back of Charah has always been a favorite of mine. As Orion said, it’s out son your free.”

Dreams go up in smoke
Dreams go up in smoke

The planes drop the bombs on the base. It is symbolic of what Sarah and Chuck were feeling. Things have changed and whether they like or not nothing would be the same. Sarah wants Chuck now. its post Day 564 and she was ready to make love to Chuck in the morning. Sarah is acting on her feelings, which leads to her implosive decision of running away.

In Path to Prague, I wrote about my theory that the famous Prague Incident actually started in the Scene on the right. This iwas television at its best. The use of imagery was well done by the creative people of the show.
Another kiss that was passionate, yet was deter by another problem. Let me show you

A passionate surprisepassionate kiss

Do you know what these two scenes have in common? Both time a return happen soon after. The return of Bryce Larkin that is. Both times it would cause friction between the two love birds. I know they are acting, but the passion is there and without a doubt the intensity of wanting that intimate moment succumbs them. Even the risk of dying or getting caught by the job.

The first kiss on the left brought Bryce back from the dead and the kiss on the right followed Bryce getting into Chuck’s head about the dangers of a relationship in the spy game. Thus, Chuck broke it off again with Sarah, but unlike the first time. This one hurts.

another break upChuck: Look, we both know how I feel about you so I’m just going to shoot straight. Sarah, you’re the greatest thing that’s ever happened to me. You’re beautiful, you’re smart, you laugh at all of my stupid jokes and have a horrible habit of constantly saving my life. The truth is, you’re everything that I thought I ever wanted and more. And for the last few days all I could think about is our future together. About what it’s going to be like once I finally get the Intersect out of my head; we can be together for real, no fake relationships, no covers, no lies. But the more I think about it, the more I realize that you and I can never have a future together. I fooled myself into thinking that we could but the truth is: we can’t. Because even if we had a real relationship it would never really be real. I’d still never know anything about you, your real name, your home town, your first love, anything. And I want more than that. I want to be able to call you at the end of a bad day and tell you about some funny thing Morgan did and not find out I can’t but I can’t cause you’re off be somewhere in Paraguay quelling a revolution with a fork. I’m a normal guy who wants a normal life. And as amazing as you are, Sarah Walker, we both know that you will never be normal.

Those words I want a normal life and you won’t ever be normal Sarah Walker. It’s not how he broke up with her she has been down this road with Chuck. It’s what he said that makes her break down and fight hard not to show her tears, but again a magical kiss soon gone by the waste side. However, the difference between these three kisses and the finale was the conclusion worked out for the characters, but not at the end we are left wondering if the kiss worked.

In Chuck v. The Fear of Death, Chuck kisses Sarah only to be kidnapped soon after. Chuck lost the intersect due to his mother. He wanted to prove he was still a spy not only to the agency, but to Sarah. However, this was bad judgment of Chuck and the writers. Again the couple we love are split apart because of chaotic situations.

Here’s how,

The Belgium kidnapped Chuck, a magical kiss shared by two lovers before a mission, and it was ruined by writers trying to create a dilemma. However, Sarah’s love for Chuck reached the level where being without Chuck was excruciating for her. The reason the magic kiss worked here there was resolution.
The pattern I am trying to demonstrate is if we constitute the final kiss to be magical? Why not the rest of them. Let’s continue.

They share their last passionate moment on the bullet train. Love making and kissing before the mad scientist finale. Never again will we see them as couple that we know. Forever we have to remember this scene as the

The feelings of the fans through Sarah's eyes
The feelings of the fans through Sarah’s eyes

last intimate moment of a couple that never was given the chance, which was all but destroyed. Sarah’s eyes are those of the fans that had to watch this. Fear, Concern and the end. A magical moment ruined by the writer’s desire to destroy the couple that everyone loved and still loves.

We can talk about the issues that make the magical kiss work, she was starting to remember just be reorganizing the cups at the Weinerlicious and Irene Demova virus, but the ending does not work because there is no conclusion to the story. Her memories were wiped away because the powers that be wanted to create one last test for the couple, which going out is not fair. Its bad way to end an epic story.

Moving on,

The next episode to look at would be Chuck vs the Other Guy,  Sarah and Shaw are instructed to go to  Paris and intercept The Ring’s attempt at building a new Intersect, but before they do Charah share an intimate moment. “Don’t worry its all going to happen once I get back.” they kiss and off Sarah goes.  We know what happens Shaw lured Sarah to Paris to kill her, but Chuck makes the save.  Another conclusion to the magical kiss.

Several magical kisses that were concluded at some point.  The final kiss did not leave me with the same feeling as those mentioned above. Now what about near kiss interruptions.

 Near Kiss Interruptions

The common theme of the scenes shown above are the common problems Charah faced throughout the series two characters so desperately wanting each other, and want to share intimate moments were often interrupted by either Shaw, Beckmann or even opportunity to escape.  The fire and passion in the eyes of the two were what makes Charah so exciting to watch, and while they don’t kiss in these scenes the anticipation of seeing more made it more that riveting  Look at the next scenes,

Each time the couple wanted to kiss, wanted to act on that fire inside of them, reality struck and they had to hold back. Great story telling because there was a chance of a conclusion. A final result of coming together.

As I mentioned at the top, the kiss is not the issue. The circumstances on how the kiss was executed was the problem for me.  If the next week or a movie was to come out and finish the story than the kiss has meaning, but as of right now as it played out the kiss lost the weight when the screen went black. The power of each scene above showed when the kiss (near) was presented with a resolution, the more gratifying as a viewer we were.

Think about it ” Shut up and kiss me”  was perfect timing, Chuck vs the Honeymooners was the culminating of the relationship. Vivian using the Nordsman on Sarah was resolved when Chuck made the save and was able to marry Sarah.  All these point of the story mentioned had closure and we moved on to the next part of the tale.

What the finale did was leave us wondering, some thing a great story teller never does. At least for me, the story is incomplete.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

61 comments

  1. We that the story was indeed incomplete, but it has nothing to do with the idea of a magical kiss. It is because of the far fetched premise that it is “cool” to have Chuck and Sarah “fall in love all over again”. That is ridiculous on so many levels. Your kisses cause or are at the heart of impeding trouble is interesting but I don’t buy into it. If anything, they are just happenstance. Case in point, every cliffhanger was triggered by an event or situation, not a kiss. There may have been the promise of a kiss, like in Ring, but nothing ever happened, because Sarah was interrupted before she could tell Chuck how he felt. I wont even get into the mess that was Prague because that was just poor story planning and storytelling. That’s a rant for another day. As for the magic kiss; realistically, it wasn’t going to happen, because the writer has all but said so, given his fall in love again scenario. All around it was a poor story choice, because of their non-flexible notion that Chuck’s hero’s journey superseded everything, including both Sarah’s character growth and the romance/marriage, and one kiss, magical or not, was not going to make up for a bad story.

    • I agree with your notion about they thought it was cool to have the lead characters fall in love again, but sometimes writers act like mad scientists and mess with their own creation. i.e. the writers of 24 and trying to make Jack Bauer seem more human than the ruthless by all means Field Op. Sometimes they want to reinvent the wheel. The problem with the writers of Chuck. Charah’s romance was and will always be the story of Chuck. The fact also was Sarah Walker became more popular than Chuck because of the beauty and acting ability even Zach on his own admission praised Yvonne for it, nor did it bother him.

      The only thing I wanted to point out was whether it was a kiss or special moment there always was something that drove them apart and there was a conclusion to it. for example, Bryce’s return after Hard Salami was concluded we get the kiss follow by two episodes of Sarah dealing with it while maintaining professional around Chuck, which failed miserable because even Casey saw it, which is why he asked her did she compromise the Intersect. The conclusion to it was Chuck and Sarah shaking hands at the end of Crown Vic, and everything was normal again.

      With the final scene and all the events that lead to it bad story or not. it was not the pattern The Powers that Be set forth throughout the series. I mean this is the same people the repeated the same PLI three straight years. The Blonde v the Brunettes we are suppose to just ignore all this because it is the final scene. Sarah remembering is not the issue nor again the kiss itself, but for no chance of a solution is irresponsible storytelling.

  2. Hey Chris,
    What’s interesting about the whole series is the notion of the Intersect, where knowledge is implanted directly in the brain. This is not really as far fetched as one would believe,as it would probably be easy to encode images into the brain of almost anyone. The problem with encoding would be needing a brain that could process those images quickly … and this is important for the storage of the information. What most people lack is the ability to retrieve the memories. This process of storing and retrieving is facilitated by combining the memories with emotions… it’s been shown that injections of adrenalin during memorization enhances the ability to remember. The amygdala ( where most longterm memories are stored ) is connected to many other structures in the brain, including the hypothalamus, the facial and trigeminal nerve, etc. Sarah’s memories would most likely still be there, since it is difficult to damage the amygdala ( it is deep inside the brain), so her lack of memory of her and Chuck’s relationship is not in the encoding or storage, but in the retrieval. As odd as it sounds, the writers did a very good job with the Intersect and the memory aspect of the show as far as true science goes. Sure they missed some continuity aspects, which become more obvious as your repeat watch the shows, but this part they got pretty good. Memories can be triggered by emotions… think of hearing a song and it takes you back to an instance when you were doing something and that song is playing !!
    The “Magical Kiss” theory is actually a very valid one…because of the connections to the amygdala, a kiss could quite conceivably enable Sarah to retrieve those memories. The suppression of the Intersect was always trying to be countered by lifting the “emotional rock”…also a very valid scientific theory. Think of Chuck in Phase Three…. although his memories were supposed to be wiped clean by the process he was going through, Sarah telling him that she loved him with or without the Intersect restored everything, except the Intersect.

    While you feel there was no “conclusion”, there actually was. The only thing left in the air was whether she remembered, and I understand this is not what many wanted to see. I find that funny, especially after I got over it the first time. I understand your connection to Sarah’s character, and your need to see things work out for her. But the show ending with Chuck and Sarah kissing on a beach leaves me with no other conclusion that they would be apart. If they had kissed, and then she smiled, got up, and walked away, that would be different. If she had never had some of her past memories triggered by other things, then that would be different, too. But she does remember some things, which tells us the memories are still there. She is still very intimate with Chuck at times ( like when she fixes his tie before they tango), and the fact that she went to the beach … a very personal place for them as a couple. She asks Chuck to tell her about them as a couple, and then asks for the kiss…. which shows that the life Chuck told her about is what she wants…… that is the emotional connection to her past, and to Chuck. Things do happen after some kisses, but there are a lot of kisses where nothing happens.

    Like I said, once I got over my obsession with Sarah being happy or perfect, or completely changing her into this woman I wanted her to be, I realized what the writers were telling us with that ending. Chuck and Sarah are together…no matter what. They were always meant to be together, and no matter how many things or events happened to separate them at times, they always fought for themselves as a couple. I can’t see how that would ever change.

    • Gary; I agree with a lot of what you are saying…except that in reality, there was no conclusion. There was an implied, or hopeful outcome, but contrary to popular belief, the triggering of memory is not just emotion. I never didn’t believe that Chuck and Sarah wouldn’t find their way back to each other, or even that her memories wouldn’t return…eventually…because they were only suppressed, not completely. Memory, however, is what drives you in everyday life. Recall of things that you’ve done, mistakes made, things accomplished, lessons learned, all these things make you who you are. And, having been a person who suffered some memory loss, both short and long term, the effect on you personally, whether you retrieve those memories or not, change you. You don’t feel like a whole person, because a part of you has been taken, and it takes time to find those pieces of you to become whole again. That was completely whitewashed. If they were going to do this story properly they should have started this arc much earlier in the season. The Sarah at that beach clearly doesn’t remember important things…like the significance of the beach she migrated to…or the fact that she’s married to a man that she might trust to a certain degree, but still doesn’t know, or remember, says only that they still have a ways to go before their journey back to each other is complete. That’s what makes the finale unsatisfying, because while it is indeed hopeful, the mere fact that Sarah is not Sarah, especially to herself, means that it will take some time. Even the writer (CF) wanted them to fall in love again, which to me frankly is so naïve and blatantly stupid that I’m still angry to this day. She might fall in love with Chuck again, but what about loving herself? That’s not a small task, and it took Sarah 5 years to trust her heart completely the first time. Ambiguity in storytelling might be trendy, but I like for my stories to have a beginning, a middle and an end….Chuck forgot the ending.

    • That was a lot of information Gary, I was able to finish one cup of coffee and began working on another. The issue again is not so much the kiss that bothers me. As Rev said, its the execution and timing of it that bothers me. Would it hurt that we got a 6 months after like we did in Pink Slip. Why Pink Slip is more tolerable for me was 12 episodes later we get “Your still my Chuck” moment What makes the first passionate kiss tolerable after the return of Bryce was because we got to see a nice moment between the two in Crown Vic. How about the emotional scene at the end of The Balcony, The passion and love in the eyes of Charah was followed by a dark episode in The Gobbler but we got a great ending to the story with the Push Mix.

      Why do we have to suffer through 5/12 a very dark episode one that I don’t ever watch because of it and than get what we got in the finale. If we are to accept the notion that they would survive let us see it rather giving us hope for a return and or movie that may never happen. It poorly executed and the reality is most people have the same sentiments.

      • Rev…..I, too, have lost memories due to brain surgery, so I know what you mean. I also had a change of personality, but I believe in a good way. Not all memories are positive … Sarah not remembering everything would certainly spare her the whole Shaw arc, while the rest of us still have to suffer while trying to whitewash that Gawdawful storyline from out memory banks!!LOL But Sarah wasn’t injured … her memories were suppressed…and as the finale went along, you could see she was getting her memories back when the right trigger came along.
        My point is that, no matter what the “ending” of the show portrayed ( she says she remembers, or what we actually got with just a kiss that gives us hope), that doesn’t conclude their story…. there would be no conclusion to the story of Sarah and Chuck until they’re both dead !! A six year old could write an ending where the kiss ended and Sarah smiled and she remembers everything.. big whoop. As many writers and actors will tell you, their job is to make you feel something … to bring out an emotion, but not dictate what that emotion will be. Due to our own backgrounds and personalities, these emotions will differ. And that’s what they are trying to achieve …. make you feel an emotion, but not just one particular emotion. If the “conclusion” you wanted was wrapped up with a pretty bow and we were told Sarah remembered, then I would feel the writers wussed out and didn’t give the viewers enough credit for being attached to these characters, and understanding them on more than a superficial level. I have to know that Chuck will ALWAYS be there for Sarah, and Sarah will find those memories of what made “her” Chuck special to her.( If she doesn’t she will create new ones, but that doesn’t happen in my mind). These are basic character traits that were demonstrated over and over again, so they will always retain these. And that’s what the writers gave me … a chance to continue the story, past the beach, past the kiss, and onto the future. Does Chuck continue with Carmichael Industries? Do Ellie and Chuck continue to perfect the Intersect? Do Chuck and Sarah have kids? Do they buy Sarah’s dream house? And on and on. None of these questions was ever going to be “concluded” in a series finale, but you continue to focus on only one loose end …. “does she remember ?”. I tend to think about the story being about Chuck and Sarah as a couple, and everything they had to go through to be together…. so I believe that IS what will happen, whether she remembers everything or not. The show was about how they were destined to be together.
        Relating any of the kisses to the kisses in the first seasons is a bit different, because the writers have to build tension in building the relationship … they didn’t want to “Jump the Shark”. Other kisses were the start of great things, so, ( as someone told you previously), i think you’re spiraling a bit with the kiss as a precursor for all that is evil !! A far as Chris Fedak saying he wanted them to fall in love again, I believe what he said is that, if you feel she didn’t remember, don’t you think that they would at least fall in love again? He was allowing the viewers to decide how they ended up together, no matter the outcome of the kiss. And then the story would continue. As the show creators have said about a movie… < " There will always be more missions, more adventures. The story of Chuck and Sarah is far from over." I understand why people are upset … even Zac Levi understands that. It is, as R Emerson wrote in 1904, the "tyrannical instinct of the mind."…. boil things down to something we understand so we can "know". We need things explained to us…we need to know why something happens, whether it makes sense or not. But when pressed , Zac says, "Of course she remembers… that's what I felt would happen." I've had a major breakthrough since my second brain surgery… i don't NEED to know everything. As a matter of fact, I CAN'T know everything. And when my patients ask me why a certain treatment works, I'm quite comfortable telling them, "I don't know." There is a lot of things in this world that happen and we don't know why. Trying to understand things so we can "know", before we have all the answers only impedes progress. So I am perfectly comfortable not being told by Chris Fedak or Josh Schwartz that Sarah remembers the past 5 years. I understand that Sarah and Chuck will be together, because that is how the story goes. If we do get a movie, it would be kinda dumb if they weren't together !!

    • Gary; it’s nice to know a kindred sprit!!! I get all of what you’re saying; I really do. My problem is, and always has been, the ambiguity of it all. I didn’t necessarily need the “they lived happily ever after” or the white picket fence/kids running in the yard happy ending. I just needed more; when you tell a story, you have to have a justification for the tale that you’re telling. You don’t have to tie everything up in a neat little bow, but have a point…and have a little respect for your audience, and your fans. I couldn’t deliver a sermon weekly without having a point, and unfortunately for me the finale didn’t make a point. As I said, I could have accepted the ending if they had started the arc earlier in the season, providing more time for recovery. It never was a question of destiny, because I, like you believe that they were/are meant to be; but you also have to be realistic as well. It took Sarah years to trust her heart with all of her memories in tact, so just by virtue of suppressed memories, it’s just not realistic to say that all is well at the end of that beach scene. Hopeful? Absolutely. As to the actors, it’s pretty much a given that Yvonne was not happy with the way she left her character, but. being the professional she is she has stayed away from the fray. I don’t knock those that liked the finale, and certain I respect your pov, but from my perspective, I shouldn’t have to have to imagine a happy ending, or an ending at all for that matter; that’s the job of the storyteller, not mine.

      • guys,
        I have no problem with the kiss, Charah often wanted to kiss each other. if you recall “This would be the part where I would be forced to kiss you..” Forced?, would that be so bad.” I can suffer through it. “So, can I” This was the ending scene from Chuck vs Tango, thus the need to kiss each other already survived three episodes in to the series. Charah danced around the issue for 2 and half years great story telling will they won’t they was fun and enduring because a lot of the memories we are talking about took place during these times.

        Delorean, Cougars, Broken Heart, Tom Sawyer, not to mention each time Sarah was telling Chuck that she wanted him but because he was an Asset, she could not jeopardize losing Chuck. Remember the ending of Marlin he is my guy. she wanted to say my boyfriend. This is not to say we didn’t have great memories of them during the relationship, but for me what I have a problem with, which is the problem of Season 5 as a whole. They knew going in this was the final 13 episodes. you started the season with Morgan having the intersect bad writing, you claimed there was a bigger conspiracy that included Shaw. YOu leave an impactful Character to the final four episodes which is ludacris The bad guys of season 5 should of been Decker to Quinn Shaw’s run ended at RIng 2

        When we look at all these memories and compile them we can see the love and desire to be together and its not a question we all including me know they were destine to be together. Sarah was going to make it hard for Chuck to be with another woman and Chuck was entering a world he had no clue just to be with her. Sarah was also in search of normalcy. Hence if we go back to the pilot once Chuck said “I can be your Baggage Handler” Sarah was hooked, in love no not until after Day 564, and defin. at the beach wedding. I am just saying and reference Dexter in this case. Did I like seeing him sail into the Hurricane after dumping Debbies body no but I had closure knowing at least he was still alive and living his life because of the fear of killing hannah and Harrison like Trinity became. or Rev, I didn’t like it but even Dawson’s Creek I am ok with because Pacey and Joey being together closed the book on that.

        or Sam Malone alone in his Bar, what I don’t like is being black screened like Sopranos or any other show I have seen exit stage left with the same concept. its not what I am looking for nor am I expecting every story to be tied up, but it would be nice to see if Verbanski and Casey find each other or Alex and Morgan mend fences or if Ellie and Chuck were able to fix the intersect glitch.

        as I am thinking about it, it would be really cool if there was another area where Orion kept files because as narotic as he was. it is hard to fathom everything was only in that basement.?

      • That’s the point though Chris; the kisses, unto themselves, are fairly insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Were the harbingers of things promised, or destiny manifested? Absolutely. They all represent the desire for more; the explore the possibility of things hoped for. But aside from that finale kiss on the beach, they don’t really lead anywhere. And no Gary; I’m not really focused on Sarah’s memory loss/suppression. I’m focused only on the ambiguity. I didn’t need all of the questions answered, life lived on a daily basis is a question being asked, and only living will provide those answers, but some questions ARE answered along the way, and here none were answered, only implied. I didn’t care about Carmichael Industries, or Casey/Verbanski, or Morgan/Alex or the Awesomes, because their stories were deliberately given positive futures; only the heart of the show was push back full circle, with the outcome left to the imagination of the viewer. That’s not my job to finish the story, or ever to move it forward, that was the job of the storyteller, and frankly, he opted not to do that. Either he wouldn’t…or couldn’t. I never tell a story without finishing it, before going on to the next one. I’ve been reading and collecting comics for 56 years, and every story arc, has an ending, before embarking on the next arc. Stan Lee said very early on “Always give the fan’s what they want; while always leaving them wanting more”. Even when Superman died there was an aftermath, before he was resurrected.

  3. Like I said, I understand people’s reaction to the end … probably the same reaction that i had when i first watched it. On subsequent views, i found the ending less ambiguous ( if that makes sense, since ambiguous is ambiguous !!) Like I said, my personality doesn’t like someone telling me what to think, feel, how things are, etc. I’ve been burned by misinformation, so I like to explore the possibilities myself. I understand that it puts me in the minority. I always found Chuck to be unique in it’s identity, so I thought the ending fit in perfectly with that identity. Those that didn’t like the ending because it was ambiguous, felt that way because they cared deeply for the 2 characters…. they NEED the writers to tell them it all worked out. Me…. I trusted the writers enough to let me believe it would work out, and that’s what they gave me, without being force fed. Different strokes, for sure !!!

    • Hey; I get it. I understand your need to get at the truth (your truth0 on your own without benefit of being hit over the head with things. I’m very much the same way. The thing for me in this case was that they didn’t tell me ANYTHING. They left it to my imagination. And while I have a fairly vivid imagination (I read comics for God’s sake), I have never read a book of any kind without an ending. So to me, Chuck is like an unfinished novel, because the writer either didn’t have the vision, or the talent to finish what he started. As I said I understand your POV, I just needed a little closure. You deal with ambiguity in life daily (life itself is ambiguous), so I like a little closure in works of fiction. I’m a minister, and counselor, so too much realism becomes a little mind bending. And when you devote five years of your life, as I did with Chuck (saw every episode live) the idea of a never ending story tarnished the experience for me. I’ve watched a lot of tv in nearly 60 years and I’ve never been so disappointed in a series finale (and that includes Lost and Seinfeld).

      • depending on the story sometimes being left wondering is fine, but most of the time its better to close the main story. We all know Chuck and Sarah were going to stay together. I believe they were soul mates and drawn to each other since the pilot, and I also don’t need to see kids and or out of the spy world. What I am looking for is whether they “fell in love again or did she remember most of it.” I also like stories that leave me wondering if its done properly. For example, James Bond movies need wondering what will happen next because its what we expect another movie. or in Batman when we wonder what villain they will use or if Christian Bale will return as Batman again. These are the kind of things you wonder about, but wondering if a kiss works or not is the question its what happens next for me. Thus, the story is incomplete

      • Absolutely, Chris; the thing for me was being told after the fact by CF that oh yeah, they’re together. Sarah’s memories are in there….and isn’t it cool that they get to fall in love all over again. That pretty much tells you that the kiss didn’t work, but was instead was a red herring. It was his intent to break them up so that Chuck could win the girl again. Well 1) no it isn’t so cool that they get to fall in love all over again. Forget destiny and all that; hadn’t they been through enough just to get to where they were? Chuck had been kidnapped several times; had his mind nearly wiped clean, and the same for Sarah: won her/lost her/got her back and finally got her to trust her heart and him enough to finally believe in love and possibilities, and now she has to go through that again? And, 2) tearing down Sarah’s character so that Chuck could be the hero (again). Sarah had been relegated to a back seat driver in all of the supposed finales and a spectator in some (Cliffhanger). CF so wanted to make sure that everybody was reminded that the show was called Chuck that he purposely took his most popular character (a fact that he most probably didn’t like) and dropped her down so that Chuck could save the day. That started to become fairly obvious. And what he did to her in season 5 was downright cruel, seeing as Sarah took beating after beating and finally had her memories, and her live essentially taken from her so that what, Chuck could sweep her off her feet and save her again? Come on, even shows like Buffy allowed Zander to be the hero in a finale once in a while. That’s why I will probably never support another project by CF, because when it came to Chuck, someone had to get beaten down so that he could rise above it all; and the one who usually wound up taking the fall was Sarah.

      • I agree with you here, Sarah was destroyed many times in the series. whether it was countless break ups, having to deal with other women and not complain about it. terminated and almost died just so Chuck can have the upper hand, but the power of the character makes that more appealing. The mad scientist I am beginning to call them because they messed with what kept them alive for 5 years. The Intersect storyline could only take them so far, but its the romance that made it lasting. We all know this is nothing new, but when you see a character we all love being abused countless times and more emphasis was put on the bromance we see that Sarah never had a chance of having a conclusion. The writers were not going to have it,

      • That’s why the second and third viewings were important to me, something you couldn’t really get watching network TV. I only saw it sporadically on network TV, and forgot most of the episodes I did see. I was disappointed with the ending the first time I saw it, and I had only invested about 3 months of my life on Netflix !! Of course, I missed so much since I was so caught up in the story, the hopes, what I wanted to happen, etc. When I rewatched, I was amazed at what the writers gave me that i missed the first time. And that’s the difference that exists in different people. I am always forced to look for clues where they seemingly don’t exist… nobody comes into my office and tells me directly what the diagnosis is. My job is to talk, to observe, to ask questions…. and then glean the information I need from the small clues the patient gives me. That’s what i saw in subsequent viewings of the finale….the clues. The things Sarah does, the things Sarah says, the way she says them… that was so thrilling to me !! I felt I totally understood her and where she was at that point in her life. And it gave me a totally different emotion than the first time I watched it, which was very cool.( I heard Nathan Fillion talk about the season finale of Castle, and he mentioned the need for actors and writers to evoke emotions in people, no matter what those emotions are.) Your points about closure are important, and perhaps I will need some closure about some things in my life. But in make believe stuff, I need to use that for creative purposes, which is why we see the ending differently. If and when a movie happens, I hope they play with the ambiguity a little more ( being the sadist I am, I guess !!)
        As far as the talent of the writers, they must have been a fairly talented lot to keep people watching for 5 years. I know there was turnover, and there were missteps. (Some people didn’t mind the Shaw Season 3 story line, whereas i found that we had to change the characters basic makeup to accept the decisions made during that arc.) I do believe the final season would have been better without Shaw, and have Quinn be a longer arc… perhaps placating some of the suddenness of the memory loss storyline. I’m sure it was tough to end it, as most series are. This one, I can live with.

        Take care !

      • That my friend just means that you have a creative spirit!!! That requires no explanation, or apology. I have probably watched all 91 episodes 50 times or more…well vs The Goodbye only about 10, and I see things, just not enough. And when the actress playing the part pretty much says that she didn’t care for the way things ended with her character, that tells you a lot. She is good actress, and a professional, so naturally she isn’t going to bite the hand that feeds her, but just like her knack for emoting with her facial expressions she did the same about the finale. She was asked at SDCC last summer about it (I had the good fortune to be there) and she said that said that she had hoped for a better outcome. Yes, actors want to evoke a myriad of emotions from their audience, but at the same time, if you’ve played a certain character for a number of years you become that character’s caretaker, and certainly you don’t want to see that character torn down in any way. Josh Jackson said that being allowed input into his character’s development helped to better his insight into and him portrayal of that character. When you have no say in what happens to whomever you’re playing, they become just words on a page. I have to say that it has been fun talking with you…you take care as well. I’m sure that we’ll bump heads again. Just ask Chris……

      • Gary,

        I have watched the ending several times and it still rubs me the wrong way, I still don’t like it and its not the kiss that bothers me. its the theory that a magic kiss would fix everything and happily ever after, it was never the pattern of the show. whatever the scientific reason may be or what the story about memories was the fact remains we got 13 episodes of season 5 that really was poorly executed. they knew they were going out and yet they went out with a dud. again the whole everyone getting the Intersect killed that storyline and Shaw being the mastermind killed the season 4 finale and I still don’t understand leaving Quinn for the end. If Bryce stole the intersect from Quinn that was sent to Chuck than essentially Quinn has been apart of the story since the beginning. if we are going to say Volkoff was there from the beginning so has quinn his impact on Charah is more paramount than what ever Shaw did because he affected Chuck where it matter most his friends and family my only issue I have is if you know this is it and you know your may not return we need to see some sore of closure for Sarah I agree with Aaron, Sarah was your second most important character yet you destroyed the character at the end. you took a pencil erase her mind and expect the fan base to say ok they are fine, when all is not well. “Chuck Kiss me” is nice I loved it, but when the screen went black I have been saying still “That’s it”

        To me I have originally thought they did it on purpose on the chances of a return, but what if nothing transpires we are left with a cliffhanger at the end. Do you know what Marlin is such a great episode because if the show was not picked up for a second season and that episode was the last one we have a bero stance made by Sarah as she made the save. She saved Chuck’s family and the tears in her eyes shows that she was in love this would of been ok with me if this was the finale. not much accomplished but great we see all is well in Burbank, but not everything is alright with Chuck kiss me she still is not the Sarah we knew

  4. I still feel you’re focused too much on the actual kiss fixing things, rather than the reason she asked for the kiss, but I understand your point.

    For me…if and when they make a movie, I hope they drag out the ambiguity. I want Chuck on that beach, by himself …on May 16th on some year in the future, thinking about all that had happened during that 5 years, or more. Then he leaves the beach, by himself….gets into his car ……and a woman in the back seat puts a gun to his head and tells him to drive….

    That would be so much fun, especially if the woman is Sarah !!!

    • I can pretty much guarantee you that if they did that, neither Fedak or Schwartz would ever do anything in Hollywood again. Schwartz has an impressive track record so far, but even he took some heat for the Chuck finale, and has done nothing but provide adequate closings for his shows since; Fedak, well he cant sell a pilot…no one trusts his judgment, or his motivation. Veronica Mars was cancelled without fanfare 7 years ago, but even Rob Thomas (the creator) had the forethought to close out the current storylines while opening doors for another possible season. And the movie gave a thumbnail view of what happened to all the main characters within the first 10 minutes. You don’t bite the hand that feeds you, and it’s the Chuck fans that kept the show on the air for 5 years. By right, the show should have cancelled after season 2, but it was the creative genius of the fans that kept it alive. Considering the fact that pretty much gave his loyal fans the finger, unapologetically btw, with the non-ending we got. If they did that in a movie, or mini or whatever, he might as well look for work at Burger King :)…….

      • And that’s the beauty of starting like that … what’s going on with Sarah forcing Chuck to go somewhere …
        What if she takes him to a hotel … giving a synopsis of the last few years … his successful Enterprise, she needs information, needs him to engage in a little cyber-terrorism, etc., etc…… He reiterates that he would never hurt her, and doesn’t think she will hurt him….they do some martial arts or something like that ( how about Sarah using a tranq gun !!)…and then when he wakes up, Sarah has him handcuffed to a bed ….. and wishes him… “Happy Anniversary !” That could be a lot of fun, especially if Chuck just mentions that it’s weird that they still “play spy” for kicks !!! 😉
        See ….I was just playing with the ambiguity, and it would pique people’s interest !!Yeah… maybe tick some people off at the first, but they do get the outcome they wanted !

      • Quite an imagination my friend!!! I wouldn’t but it for a second, but even I might get sucked in…..

      • Maybe you should have written the original finale; it couldn’t have been any worse than what we wound up with!!!!

  5. It could be a bit more risqué than even the TV show….although that had its risqué moments with Sarah and Carina !!

  6. It sounds like you guys have it all planned out!!! Hey I’ve been waiting for a Gilmore Girls movies for 7 years now; and the clock is ticking….Lauren Graham is 46 now, and Scott Patterson is almost 56….if it takes too much longer we may not ever get to see a Luke/Lorelai marriage. ASP really screwed that show up before she left, and the showrunner that took over drove the final nails in the coffin, so that show never recovered. Poor plotlines, a ridiculous marriage and terrible writing ruined it’s final season. I would hate to think that after everything Goodbye is all we’re left with in regards to Chuck.

    • I know Zac will keep battling. Of course, it’s tough when the show is just starting to air in certain foreign markets…WB won’t let go of it until they’ve sucked it dry. Most will want the reunion just to revive flagging careers. However, I worry about Yvonne, since her career is healthy. It seems people can’t let go of her Sarah character, and every subsequent character she plays is compared to Sarah. It may not be the wisest decision to reprise that particular character. I’m sure she would say yes just because it was her launching pad, but there may be those who would advise against it !

      • I agree about Yvonne’s career/role choices, however, she had a pretty good career starting to gel in Australia before her coming here, so she should be ok. She’s doing well on 24 so far, but really, 24 is not the best in promoting female actors. Most languish in their parts, and for that matter, tend to wind up dead. She has been on broadway since the end of Chuck and did receive a tony nomination as well as a theater award of some kind…she is a tremendous actor. And yes, I’m on Twitter, although I’m not very active. AARONSMITH58……

      • Just the fact that she is working with Kiefer and soon Adrian Brody shows she starting to work with the big names. and we both know no matter what she does Chuck fans will support her no matter what she is a good person and we look out for her and Zach.

        We know how hard they worked to bring to life Chuck and Sarah and again the finale scene acting was wonderful notice the comments has nothing to do with Zach and Yvonne which is pretty cool.

        Actually I would love to see Zach work along with Chloe on 24 as a hacker/computer wiz which would fit well with his nerd persona.

        I also don’t think Kate Morgan will end up like Nina Myers, Renee Walker because we already seen she will be active, She out performs the other two with physical scenes and has experience doing the scenes herself. The only one I do like is Kim Raver so I just hope Jack stays with Audrey or i will be seriously disappointed. Yvonne does not have to always make it with the male star of the show

        Also speaking of writers I am up to season 8 of 24 and let me tell you the last two seasons the writers try to make Jack look more human which is terrible because the way Jack handled the job was the right way. Terrorists are not going to negotiate and Jack knew this which bugs me when the writers want to be mad scientist with their creations. to quote Sarah

        Why can’t they let things be…

      • If you watched the first “day”, Jack was a pretty human, well defined character, with a wife and daughter that he loved very much. He was all about the job, but his family was very much his focus. It was Teri’s death that changed him, and from that point on Jack was a very hard, very bitter man. I re-watched the series recently (I do every couple of years) to get ready for LAD and each season still holds up pretty well. I have no doubt that Yvonne will do well, but in the past they have tried to tout a female version of Jack in Renee Walker, and I see signs of them going that way with Kate’s character, but I hope that Yvonne doesn’t pigeon hole herself with the role.

      • Yvonne has said she would be willing to do a movie. She said so many times even has far back as last year. On her own account she said she missed playing Sarah. However, it will only be a movie, but she is panning out with 24, which is better organized and not for nothing there is nothing wrong with being typecasted. for a long time Will Smith was typecast as a sify for all the alien movies he does does that mean will smith is worthless as an actor? Clint Eastwood did Bridges over madison county which was a terrible movie He try to branch out but we all know what roles suit him. at the end of the day its about making money, and i recently said on twitter if there is no Chuck movie there are 91 episodes to choose from and there are 89 others that are great to be stuck on talking about 2

  7. Yeah, but Eastwood is an Oscar winning producer/director also. Sometimes a bad movie is the sacrifice you make to get a better one made. It’s not always about choice, but compromise.

    • What a wonderful time to be a fanboy; Cap/Winter Soldier; Amazing Spidey2; X-Men:Days of Future Past; Guardians of the Galaxy; not to mention S.H.I.E.L.D., Arrow, The Flash, Agent Carter, I:Zombie and Constantine….I am in heaven!!!!!

      • Afleck will be fine…I wasn’t thrilled when they announced Michael Keaton back in 1990 and he was brilliant; yeah Yvonne is holding her own against Sutherland, and the action is ramping up. I just have to keep reminding myself that this only a 12 hr mini-series and not a full 24 so it’s gonna serious really quickly.

      • Yea, but there is always a chance for more 24 Sutherland likes playing the role but he is getting up there in age but he is in good shape

        I actually was using my imagination the other day a cross production of Chuck vs The CTU

        Team Bartowski invades CTU with Beckmann and Bill Buchanan running point

      • Yeah but Bill Buchanan is dead…remember he sacrificed himself to save the President’s life when terrorist took over the White House in day 7…..

      • I tell you though much like Orion had an impact on Chuck even though he was dead I thought Dennis Haysbert’s David Palmer was very important to the story of Jack Bauer and CTU.

        David was such a strong leader and great role that I wish he didn’t go off to do The Unit because David would of been nice ally for Jack in the latter part of the series. See how one show is different than another Chuck destroyed its Characters at times and on 24 some are marveled even when they are gone.

    • Yes, and after watching tonight’s episode of 24 Yvonne will be fine. She has impact and she will be better because there is nothing scientific holding her back. An Intersect or Chuck that will undermine her Mary and Keifer both praised her work and there is nothing better than that.

      24 is ideal for her it will use all her talents as Sarah Walker but with an upgrade, less comical and more drama she can be serious and deadly great role for her. They will use her correctly

      • Yvonne always wanted to do a bit more comedy in Chuck. Kate is just damn serious ALL the time. This is Sarah from the beginning of Season 3 … pissed at a broken relationship, sole focus on the mission. Furrowed brow, pursed lips all the time. This is not a role where Yvonne has to stretch herself (yet, anyway). A lot of actresses can play the pissed character with ease. It was her ability to move from the super serious Sarah to the light, airy Sarah in a heartbeat that made her perfect for Chuck and stretched her as an actor.

      • Gary,

        The reason why it works in 24 has to do with the dark nature of the show. We know Sarah I mean Kate I mean Yvonne can get dark and dirty.

        However, the things I see different from the other females leads, she is just as smart as Bauer none of the other women were given the chance.

        Even Chloe took two seasons to get Jack’s trust and friendship. Remember Jack wanted to fire her until Chase stepped in.

        What I like from Kate is even though she has this dark cloud over her she is still doing her job much like Jack how many times did Jack have the weight of the world on his shoulders.

      • We bandied about Kate’s situation a bit over at CHUCKTHIS, and her husband being a traitor, or, his being framed, and her not knowing about it obviously is what’s driving her, since she feels that she has to prove herself. The great thing is that she (Yvonne) has already proven that she can play in the dark very easily, and she is already owning that character, and she plays of Keifer Sutherland easily, and naturally.

      • Is the Kate character a better role for Yvonne than Sarah? She’s a different character altogether. I haven’t seen too much new from Yvonne in this role. It’s only 12 episodes, so the character will never be as broad as Sarah’s was. Like I said….furrowed brow, pursed lips …… one expression so far in 4 episodes. (And always looking like she just got out of the MUA’s chair when she’s been in a fire, an explosion, and had Jack smash her in the face just gets my blood boiling……LOL !!) She does play well off Kiefer, but there haven’t been that many scenes together. Sarah had a LOT of serious scenes, as did Hanna. Nothing new here. I do notice they are going with very hard lighting on her, too…kind of odd that she would want or allow that. Her skin is not the greatest ( as she admits), and it’s a huge contrast to her photos which are heavily liquified and smoothed. Interesting ploy to perhaps be taken more seriously for even grittier roles….

      • I don’t think that the role of Kate is better than that of Sarah. Sarah’s character’s, and Yvonne’s portrayal of her, was layered, and was developed over time, whereas Kate’s is singular, and focused. Kate has to been seen as a woman with a beleaguered past; a past that she sees as a hurdle to overcome. She’s determined to prove that, although she made a fatal mistake, blinded by personal feelings, she is still worthy of, I don’t know, forgiveness, and redemption. You can see that singularity starting to crack though, because, in last night’s episode, she started to think that there may be more to Jack’s actions, and motivations, than she initially thought. She had to come out of the gate fast because this whole adventure takes place over a 24 hour period. So whatever she does, her portrayal has to be nuanced. So Sarah, just by virtue of the journey over time, had to be the more difficult role, because we are made to see her changes both internal, and external, and thus more expressive. Kate though, if all goes as planned, will complete her mission by capturing Jack thereby showing that she is capable of making the right choices and decisions, proving that her being fooled by her husband’s betrayal was a fluke, and a one time glitch, that she has overcome. Time will tell if Kate will be more than we’ve seen, but since 24 is driven by Jack Bauer’s persona, it will be difficult for any real room for substantial growth.

      • Its not so much what role is better, we only seen 4 episodes of the new season of 24, and with only 12 episodes this season we have to assume there is lot more coming. As Gary said this is Keifer’s show so no one is going to out shine him, right fully so he puts a lot into Jack Bauer.

        What we have from Yvonne is a serious role, and I actually prefer it it. lets not for get guys 24 is realistic scenarios where as Chuck is science fiction. This creates a different need for the character. We have seen all those emotions from Yvonne in the Pilot of Chuck, but it is very similar to 24 in a sense that like her character’s trust in Bryce, we have to learn the particulars of Morgan’s husband very similar situation, and unlike the time I compared Sarah Walker and Hannah McKay, this we can compare because she is playing a CIA agent again.

        Yvonne’s acting ability is never going to be an issue. She will perform and do it well, and the more episodes like she did this past week. The less likely I see a Chuck movie happening because I agree with Gary, the harder it will be once she starts working with A Listers and you know what Kiefer is an A lister

        Its like Dwayne Johnson once he left wrestling and started working with the Mark Whalbergs and now has a role in the Fast and Furious franchise we see he can perform with the best of them. if we don’t get a Chuck Movie all I will say is IMO I have 89 episodes to enjoy. I just don’t like the final two.

      • That’s my thinking too…. this is Kiefer’s show, not Yvonne’s. I feel the Kate character will be allowed to fully envelop the traits she was given ( smart, but impulsive ), and it should work out well. She’ll probably be the one to work WITH Jack to foil the plot.
        But think of the pilot of Chuck, and the different incarnations/expressions of Sarah we saw in just that one episode … much more broad than anything she’s done in 24 LAD yet.

      • I would love Yvonne to get her own show for once, she has often needed to carry casts sometimes. Lets be realistic

        or least in my opinion if it wasnt for her beauty and acting how many people would of stuck it out with Chuck. as much as we love the show, it had to fight for its life when they did have her, what would happen if she wasn’t?

      • I don’t know if Kiefer’s an A-lister…… he struck gold with 24, but hasn’t done anything else in 12 years.
        I consider Yvonne to be a poor man’s Angelina Jolie …. probably more suited to TV roles than movies, but we shall see. She doesn’t quite have Angelina’s looks or body, but they are very similar in style… they can play anything, especially the physical roles.

      • Would you be bothered if Yvonne’s was casted as Lara Croft? I don’t think so.

        But Yvonne has a better personality than Angelina, but both actresses do work hard on their respective crafts. and you are right about the physicality

        Keifer does not need to do anything else, we can all day Sean Connery is James Bond right, and thats where we know him from or Michael Keaton as the best Batman until Christian Bale took the seat.

        There are a lot of actors who take the life of their respective Charaters with them throughout their careers, Mike Myers and Austin Powers or Jason Statham being the Transporter Michael C Hall as Dexter

        There is nothing wrong with it, in fact its a sign of respect and admiration of the work they did with that Character Zachary Levi forever will be Bartowski not his role from Thor, am I making sense?

      • Chris… I’m not trying to demean Yvonne in any way… she is who she is. I like the total package better than that of Angelina, but I’m a personality type of guy. She has some quirky body characteristics, but add them all up and she is both beautiful and unique. Zac will always be Chuck, but unless Yvonne gets another LONG series, she will probably always be Sarah. These may be major roles she is getting, but they are for short series and movies. While the casts she is in talk about her talent ( and we realize she is talented) many will agree that Zac was the driving force behind Chuck. Yvonne started out playing second fiddle, but was really more of a co-star. The show was meant to tell the story of Chuck, not Sarah. As males, I think we get blinded to that…. and, sure, Yvonne could carry a show. But her being in a show doesn’t guarantee success … look at the movie I Frankenstein !!!

      • and Killer Elite…..Gary; I tend to agree with you. My friend Chis is somewhat enamored of Yvonne; but at least as of yet she just doesn’t have the diversity of roles that an Angelina Jolie and others have, While I certainly recognize and admire her talent, and potential; she still has a ways to go before she ascends to that next level. And you are totally correct in that an actor’s talent is sometimes heightened by the cast of actors that they are working with. In Yvonne’s case, Zac did make it easier for her to play off of him. Ditto for Adam Baldwin and the rest of the cast.

      • It’s hard NOT to have a thing for Yvonne !! Very tough for some to make that leap into movies and be successful… it seems actors get pigeon-holed as one or the other and cross-over is difficult. Jennifer Aniston seems have done OK, but she stayed with her comedy genre throughout. No one will take her for a serious actress now.
        Yvonne is an enigma that way … she doesn’t seem enamored with the Hollywood lifestyle. Seems she will do what she has to to make a few bucks ( ComiCons seem like big paydays, as is some modeling), but you sometimes get the feeling she’d rather be at home with her dogs or out rock climbing. She certainly interviews well … she’s very forthright and forthcoming about things, and leaves her personal life personal…(good for her!) Time will tell, but she’s coming down to the difficult time for actresses her age … no longer the fresh face, but also not familiar enough to pick and choose roles. She probably has another 5 years to make hay in the acting field. Of course, marriage and kids, if they’re in her future, may even take that off the tracks.

      • And I am saying thats her strongest quality and I love her because she has not fallen into the trap Hollywood sets she acts but its not sonething that consumes her
        Look at the pictures she posfs on Twitter and Instagraham they are not club hopping or getting into trouble she models but her face is not plastered all over the place her make up shows strong up bringing certainly a good role model and y if i could i would seek a friendship w/her good people like her are hard to find and I would love that personal relationship

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